Spill the Smut
Where the books are spicy, the conversations are juicy, and the stories rarely fade to black. I dive headfirst into the delicious world of smut with the people who live and breathe it—authors, creators, and bookish babes who aren’t afraid to spill all the steamy tea. Through interviews and unfiltered chats, I'll explore everything from fan-favorites to behind-the-scenes secrets of the bookish world. This is your escape into the world of steam, swoon and unapologetically bookish.
So get comfy. Pour a drink. And get ready to spill the smut.
Spill the Smut
Interview with Author: Martha Waters
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Magic is illegal, speakeasies are thriving, and the person tasked with enforcing the ban just walked into the wrong club. I sit down with historical romance author and librarian Martha Waters to celebrate Spellstruck, her fantasy romance set in an alternate 1920s London where potions and powders still carry real power even if the government says they should not exist.
We talk through the heart of the book: Vesper, the youngest daughter of an old magical family who runs her club like it is still the golden age, and Max, the government agent who raids places like hers for a living. When a magical poisoning kicks off a larger mystery, they team up to investigate other clubs, and the tension turns into an enemies-to-lovers romance with genuine stakes. Martha shares why London is such a fun setting for prohibition-style vibes, how she balances humor with danger, and what she hopes readers notice about a heroine who can feel a little spoiled at first.
If you enjoy smart romance, historical fantasy, and behind-the-scenes writing talk, listen now, then subscribe, share the episode with a romance-reading friend, and leave a review so more listeners can find us.
Follow Martha on IG: @marthabwaters
Cover Art by: moi
Intro/Outro Music: positive vibes by nanaacom on Capcut
Contact Email: spillthesmutpodcast@gmail.com
Podcast IG: @spillthesmutpodcast TT: @spillthesmutpodcast
Jordan IG: @sipsoffiction TT: @sipsoffiction
Welcome And A New Release
JordanShe's been writing and publishing books for several years, crafting stories for every kind of historical romance reader. Whether you're in your recently era, creating a historical romance with a twist of murder mystery or looking for a mystery touched by magic, her book has something for you. Now with her eighth book, Spell Scrap, she brings readers into an alternate 1920s London where magic has been outlawed. This enemies deliver story with a dash of safe dating, in my opinion, is perfect for anyone who loves romance attention and a little danger mixed with magic. Please welcome to the podcast, Martha Waters. Hi.
Martha WatersHi. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I am absolutely delighted to be here.
JordanThank you so much for inviting me. I am so excited to ask you all the questions. But before I start with the questions, I do want to ask you what the highlight of your week so far is.
Martha WatersAnd that is literally the first time I've written that much in one writing session in a month. And it felt really, really good. So that has actually been the highlight of my week so far.
JordanOh, I mean, that is a really good highlight, not gonna lie. I I'm kind of curious, like this is a question that I'm just gonna, I might ask some like random questions. Uh when you write 2,000 words, like let's say like the words are just flowing, will you keep writing or do you kind of set like a time where it's like, oh, I've hit my max hours?
Martha WatersI don't set a time. Well, I do set a time in that I often do like Pomodoro style sprints where I'll set a timer for like 20 or 30 minutes and then I'll do it like multi take a break and then do it multiple times because I do find that it's hard to like sustain free unless you're like really in the zone. I think it's hard to sustain like really creative energy for like hours and hours. Um, so I'll do timers. And I oftentimes for me, word like having a word count goal is really helpful. And I've tried writing without word count goals, being like, let's just see what happens. And it doesn't work for me as well. Like I need the goal to work towards. Um it just keeps me motivated. But if I'm having like a really good writing session, I'll go past like whatever my like I was my, I think my goal yesterday was like 1500 or something. Um, so I'll I'll just like keep going. The thing I'm always careful about though, um, is like I don't want to keep going and stop when I like don't know what to do next. I always want to make sure I can't I can't remember if it's Sarah McLean. There's some author who describes this as like parking like on the downhill slope. Like you don't want to like stop writing for the day when you don't know what's gonna happen next. And so the danger is like when you're super caught up in it, is you just want to keep going and keep going, but you don't want to keep going to the point where you're like, oh, I'm kind of like struggling. I'll stop for the day here. That's a bad place to stop because then it's really hard to like pick it back up again. So I always want to stop when I know exactly what's gonna like happen next in the scene. Sometimes I'll even like leave a little note for myself, like just describing what's gonna happen next to make it easier for like future me to pick it back up again.
JordanHonestly, it's so interesting that you say that. I mean, I'm not a writer, I have never written anything, like can cannot write at all. So I give you guys so many props. But it's so interesting because you would think that when you kind of get stuck, what I would just think is that I'd be like, okay, here's a good stopping point. Like, let me revisit tomorrow. And then maybe the creative juices will be flowing. But it acts, but what you're saying makes total sense.
Martha WatersAnd it's well, it's like a fine line, also, because like sometimes you're right, you've like you've burned yourself out and it's like, oh, you're kind of just asked that. Like, and to me, but to me, that's like a different feeling. It's like a different feeling where I can start to feel that I'm getting tired and it's like not flowing as well. And I'm like, okay, it might be a good time to like call it glitch today or like go take a walk and clear my head or whatever, versus just like go, go, go, go, go, and then suddenly like hitting a block of like, oh, I'm not sure what I'm gonna do here, and then stopping there. That feels bad to me because I'm just like, I know that tomorrow or whatever the next whatever the next time I'm writing, I'm gonna like open up the like Google Doc and be thinking, oh, like shoot, like I don't know what I'm doing here. And it just makes it really easy to be like, maybe I won't write today because I don't know what's gonna happen next.
JordanSo no, and that and that makes total sense. And so then if you're like, no, I know what's gonna happen next, then you're like also I feel like too, you can like look forward to it when you're gonna be able to write again because now you're like, oh, I know what I want to write next. And so like that's kind of exciting.
Martha WatersIdeally, you want to be like, I don't know, I I feel like I've never I'll never have a strong excited whenever my first published book where I was just like so excited to write each day and I would like finish writing and be like, oh, I can't wait to come back to it. And I don't feel that way with every book anymore, especially now because like I'm not like a bright-eyed bushy-tailed debut, just excited to be writing a novel. Um, but yeah, it's like if you have like scenes that you're looking forward to writing, then that's like a really nice feeling because it makes you excited to get to work the next day, whatever that may be.
JordanOkay, so we'll dive in because I actually have like more questions for you, but I'm gonna dive into these questions and then hopefully I can squeeze the other questions in with doing sounds like a plan. Okay, perfect.
Writing Habits That Keep Momentum
JordanOkay, so the first question I have for you is because you start you mentioned your debut book. What inspired you to start writing and to write romance books?
Martha WatersUm, I've wanted to be a writer. Oh gosh, I've gotten this question so many times in the past what six, six and a half years and fighting you can. And I'm always like, I've wanted to be a writer since I I can't pinpoint it. I I've had thought about it so much, I get asked it so often, and I actually still can't pinpoint like when I wanted to become a writer, but it was sometime before the age of six or seven, because I have a writing journal for when I was in first grade, and then I have one from when I was in fourth grade, and literally the first page of the fourth grade one is like, My name is Martha Waters, and I'm going to be a writer.
JordanUm I love that.
Martha WatersYeah, no, I was not, I know not all writers have always dreamed of doing it. I have I've author friends who I know came to it kind of like when they were older, but for me, it's definitely I'm one of the stereotypical ones where it's like it's the only thing I've ever really wanted to do. Um, although I was very conscious, someone someone must have told me as a child that it's not the most like stable career path. And so I was always like, okay, I'm gonna write books, and I also need to have another job. And so I was constantly changing my mind about like what my day job would be, but the writing part was like constant. Um and I just kind of like over time changed my mind about like what I wanted to write. Like when I was little, I always wanted to write whatever genre of book I happened to be reading at the time. When I was reading a lot of Nancy Drew, I was like, I'm gonna write mysteries. And then I was a big fantasy fan, both as a kid and like in high school and college. And so for a long time I thought I would write like middle grade or YA fantasy. Um, but then when I was in my mid-20s, I became a romance reader. Um, because I had to, I took a popular fiction class when I was in graduate school to become a librarian. And I had to read a romance novel one week. And I totally fell in love with the genre and read literally um like a hundred a year, like for a few years there. And I was like, I was trying to, I was working on other books I had not like succeeded in getting an agent for or anything. But I was like, you know, it really makes sense to try writing a book in the genre you're reading like hundreds of books of like so I decided to try writing a romance novel because I just loved reading them so much and it was so fun to read. I thought it might be try to might might be fun to try to write one as well. Um, and that first romance novel I tried to write turned into my debut novel.
JordanWait, that's so cool. Like the first romance, because I I've hear so many authors talk about how they have drafts and finished books sitting in on their desktop. But they're not. I do for other genres, yeah, just not for romance. Like no, but I think it's so cool. Like that your first romance one was like the one that you is your debut. I think that's so cool.
Martha WatersI know, I think about it sometimes. I feel like part of it's just luck as everything is in publishing. Um, but part of it I think also is just that I realized that I don't know, it's like I had done some of the like practice work of just, I think, I mean, there are some authors who the first I know they exist, people who like the first book they write is the one that ends up being their first book published. But I think that's the minority of authors and the majority have several attempts like in a drawer somewhere. And I felt like I got the sort of like learning how to like the nuts and bolts of how to write a novel. I kind of got that learning curve out of the way with some of the ones I tried that I was not able to find an agent for. But I was writing in those ones were both um like teen fantasy that I was trying to write. And then it kind of like clicked where I felt like I knew how to write a book now, but also so many of the things I loved about romance, just like the sort of I don't know, like the character interactions and a lot of the banter and dialogue was my favorite thing to write when I was writing in other genres. And I was like, why don't I try writing a book and the genre that actually seemed like the most aligned with the kind of things that I enjoy writing? And so I felt like it all just like really clicked when I switched to trying to write a romance
From Librarian To Published Romance Author
Martha Watersnovel.
JordanOkay, and I know too, so you kind of mentioned going to school to be a librarian. I kind of read somewhere that you were are or were a librarian. I am, yeah, I certainly am. So yeah. Oh my gosh. Wait, so then would you say that like librarying is like your career and then you're writing on the side? But like, are you a full-time writer?
Martha WatersLike, I'm kind of no, because I like because I I don't work full-time in a library anymore. Um, I after my first I was like when my first writing my first couple of books, I was obviously just working full-time. I was a children's librarian in a public library in the in the States. Um, and then after my first couple of books came out, it became really, and it was a pandemic, and so everyone was kind of going through it at the time. And it was um, it was really hard for me to maintain like writing a book a year, which I was really trying to do because I was writing a series. My first few books were all in a series, and I felt like I really wanted it to come out like one a year, but it's really hard to maintain that pace while you're working full-time. And I know plenty of people who do it, but I was really struggling, and I do think the pandemic kind of was an extra factor in that. Um, so I quit my job and got a part-time children's librarian job in a public library. And then a couple of years after that, I ended up um moving to the UK, which is where I currently live. Um, and I w I wrote full-time for the first like year, year and a half that I was living there just while I was like settling in because I was like, I think moving to a new country is a big enough change without trying to like start a new job at the same time. So I wrote full-time when I first arrived there. Um, but then I started working part-time in a school library in London, um, which is where I currently work. But again, I'm only there like half time and it's like during the school year only. So I still I don't know, I'm like, I'm not a full-time librarian anymore. So I guess really like I am more in terms of a career right now, like I am more of an author than a librarian. But I feel like both are separate but important parts of my identity.
JordanSo wait, so is that kind of is that kind of the reason why some like I want to say like mo most of your books take place in London?
Martha WatersWell, all of them are in the UK, all eight of them are in the UK, and then uh London, two, three, four. It's like an even split. Like half of them are in London and half of them are in the um countryside. But of the three that I've drafted since I moved to the UK, so Spellstruck and last year's book, which was and then there was the oh it not in London. I'm gonna say all of the ones I've written since I moved to London or in London. I didn't know my own books. Two of the three were in London. And it is fun writing about it, actually living there. Like I'd visited a lot, like I always really loved the UK, studied abroad there, had visited a like a dozen times. So I feel like I knew it fairly well for an American who is not British and who has never like lived there for real. But I have noticed like since I moved there, it's been fun to write stuff that I know better. Like writing about London from the perspective of someone who actually lives there does feel different to me than it did when I was writing it just as like an outsider. So I think it helps for sure.
JordanThat's fair. That's fair, and that's kind and that's like really cool. As someone that was like an American living in America, it's fun, it's more fun to read about London and not America.
Martha WatersWell, I mean the only of my eight books, all of them are historical, is if I wrote one Christmas romance and that was a contemporary. Um, and that one was set in London, but I was like, I I wrote it from the point of view of an American in London. But I kind of set myself the challenge of like, can I write a book about an American in London that's not dumb American abroad, like stereotypes you see sometimes in media about like I did no disrespect to Amanda Bynes, but I did not want to write like what a girl wants, the book version. Um so that was actually kind of a fun thing about writing that is I was like, I had it be a I had it be an American character who'd visited London quite a bit. It was quite familiar with it. So it felt like a authentic to my own experience as an American who had recently moved to London, but was still already pretty familiar with it from visiting. So yeah.
Spellstruck Pitch And Core Premise
JordanOkay. So now that you mentioned Spellstruck, your book Spellstruck just released yesterday. Can you tell the listeners a little bit more about your book?
Martha WatersYeah, but me trying to explain this book is hilarious because I'm like, I feel like I'm mixing it like three genres. And I'm like, I said historical, fantasy, rom-com. Um it's set in a sort of slightly, well, not slightly, very alt version of 1920s London. I was gonna say slightly, and I'm like the magic exists. That is actually quite alt. Um and um in this version of London, it looks fairly similar to like what we imagine imagine 1920s London to look like. There's just like a light magical element. But basically in this world, um, there used to be like quite a lot of magic, but it's faded and weakened over the centuries. And so mainly it can be accessed now through like taking a potion or like a powder or something. But in the wake of World War I, the government has just fully outlawed it. So um the sort of like old magical families that were running these very posh um nightclubs have sort of pivoted and started turning their nightclubs into speakeasies and they're um like dealing illegal magic out of like this bath bar in their clubs. Um, so the heroine Vesper uh is the daughter, the youngest spoiled daughter of a sort of fancy old magical family who runs her family's club. And then the hero, Max, um, he is he works for the government agency that is tasked with um enforcing the laws against magic. And so he comes to raid Vesper's club and shut them down. But there is an incidence where someone is like poisoned with the magic, and so they decide to team up um together to sort of visit the other magical clubs and try to figure out what's going on. Romance ensues.
JordanLike we all love, which I guess too, like I don't I never really can get forbidden romances quite pinned down, but I feel like him being part of the government and her being a magical person. I feel like it's kind of a forbidden romance too, in a way-ish.
Martha WatersYeah, and yeah, well, it's funny because I didn't think of it in like the forbidden romance terms exactly. I was thinking it more of like, I need a source of conflict, and it's a really obvious conflict for them to have me like fundamentally philosophically opposed on this like core issue in their society. Um, and also decided something the whole way through to create tension of like why can't they be together? Oh, because he's like trying to run her family and their entire way of life out of business. But it actually is you that you mentioned that it is kind of a forbidden romance. I think that they're both kind of worried about what like the perception of a romance between them would be by like people they know on like but kind of both sides of this issue. So you're right about that, actually.
JordanOkay, thank you. Thank you. Myself on the back here. How did this story
Building An Alternate London With Magic
Jordancome to you? Like Vesper and Max's story, and then did you always know you wanted to do this like alternate London's 1920s, including magic?
Martha WatersThis is one of the story ideas I've actually had. I think it might be the one the idea I've had for the longest time before I actually wrote it. Because I first had the idea before my debut, my debut novel came out in 2020. And I had this idea like a few months before the debut novel came out, because it was right at the beginning of 2020 when half year, more innocent time, we weren't thinking about a global pandemic. We were just like, oh, roaring 20s, what a great decade! This is gonna be lol. Um and so I kind of like I know, right? And I think I think if I had gone to like a New Year's like thing with some friends at a bar that did like a 20s night or whatever, and I just like, oh, the 20s are so fun, I love the 20s. And I just had the idea. I emailed my agent a few days later. I found the email. Um, like that was like a few months ago. I was looking back through stuff from that time, and yeah, it was like January 2020, where I was like, what if I wrote uh like fantasy rom com? Is that a thing? Because also this is like 2020, and fantasy rom-coms weren't like a big business then as they are now. So I was like, is that a thing? Um and what if it's like magic is illegal? And she's like, I think that's a great idea. Maybe let's focus on the like Regency romance that you have being published in like three months and also the one that you are on deadline for, like, let's uh one thing at a time, buddy. But she was really enthusiastic about it. Though I my initial idea had been um like so many fantasies that are set in like a proper like third world fantasy are set in sort of medieval inspired worlds. And I kind of had the idea, like, what if I set this in a like completely like alternate world, not in like our world, but it was a world that felt very 20s. So in my original, like in the in fact, in an original draft I wrote of this like years ago, um, before I started working on it like in earnest and was under contract for it, I wrote it where it was in like a fictional country and the that it was just like a fictional country that kind of had a jazz age, I guess. I was like kind of the I wanted I don't know, I was just always like, why do all the like third universe, like alt universe fantasies have to be like so medieval, like so much high fantasy, just very medieval feeling. And I was like, it'd be fun to like have it be in this like totally fictional country, but I feel like the jazz age. But then as I started writing it, I realized that so many of the, I mean, part of the fact to see from years of writing Regency romances also, but I had been so like Britain pilled that like I was like a lot of the like turns of phrase that I was having to like the character felt very British. And then when I actually I thought I was like, hmm, maybe I should just set this in London. Plus, I then had the kind of thought where I was like, you know, if I've written Regency romances and I want to kind of try a fantasy, but want it to feel like accessible to my readership, maybe it makes more sense for it to be like a historical romance in in Britain, in London, that feels like very grounded in our world, which is kind of like a light magical element as a way to sort of like not trick, but like lure perhaps readers who had read my previous work, lure them in with like a light magical element without being like dropping them down into like a completely new like fantasy world. So yeah, the decision to actually set it in London came later. But then once I decided to do that, it was super fun because obviously when we think of prohibition, we're thinking of New York, not London. And it's always really fun to kind of um take some of the like prohibition vibes that you would find in a in a book set in in New York or even like Chicago or something, but then put it in London and make it feel super British instead.
JordanHonestly, I think it was it's a really cool twist because I but and I see what you mean too, because it's also kind of nice because it it it does have the magical element, which is really fun, but people can also still picture it because it's London. And so I think it like can pull in a a not a different group of readers.
Martha WatersThat's not like a different broad group, I think, is the idea. Like group fantasy readers and like historical romance readers, kind of like it's a different at all.
JordanSo and I I'm also curious, this wasn't a question, but did you happen to like get inspiration from charmed in a way? I don't know if I was just like reading between the lines, but I felt like it could have been charm-coded, but I'm also a huge charm fan. And I just know, like I not at all. Like that's so funny though. Okay, never mind. Just pretend I didn't ask that question.
Martha WatersI love questions like this. So I think it's so interesting when people ask, like, um, oh, were you inspired by XYZ thing? And sometimes the answer is yes, and I think that would like yields a very interesting answer. But I actually find it equally, if not more interesting, when the answer is no, because I just think it goes to show that we're all kind of drawing from the same well of like vibes and like creative, just like inspiration. It's also the whole thing of like have this the uh what are they like seven stories total, like the the whole thing about like story structure. You know, there's only like seven stories like in all of literature and we're all just telling the same stories over and over again because there's like the hero's journey, and there's like you know, you know what I mean? Like that kind of vibe. So I don't know, I always think it's interesting when someone sees something that they think might be an inspiration for someone's work and it's not actually what what they had in mind, because I just think it's funny to see how we're all kind of again drawing from the same well, essentially, of like broader culture.
JordanAnd it it it's so true, and it's so interesting because it's and I think this is where reading is so cool and reading is so subjective too, because it's like I like 10 of us could read the same book and gather different different thoughts and opinions and feelings from the same piece of work that you wrote for that. Also you had thoughts and feelings and opinions when you wrote it. And I think that's just like so cool.
Martha WatersYeah, and honestly, most of my work, I actually think this is the book I've written that is the least this way, but most of my work I always describe as very like meta and sort of self-referential, and that I'm very much responding to work that has come before it. Like my Regency series was very much sort of like poking fun at genre tropes almost, but like in a loving way, because I love historical romance a lot. And then when I wrote my contemporary Christmas rom com, that was a very explicit attempt to like make fun of the tropes of a holiday romance while still writing a holiday romance. And then my most recent book, and then there was the one is set in the 1930s, and like a murder village, like a cluster of a very much a like the I mean, the way I pitched it to like my agent, I was I was like, I just want to write a book like making fun of like how many murders can possibly happen in one quaint English village. So all of my work up until this point has really been an attempt for me to sort of respond to media that I deeply love in a way that is sort of like very lightly poking fun at it, but I think it's like the call is coming from inside the house. Like I'm doing this as a fan and as a like a love of a lover of those genres. And I actually think this one is the one that I came into without that explicit intent. I was more just like I was just like, I just want to write something set in the 20s, I want to write a fantasy, and I don't know, I just wanted to have fun also. It was a very just like fun idea to me. And um, it was it was very fun to write.
JordanAnd I I feel like that can that like comes across in the reading of it. I think you can, and I I like I feel I feel really bad saying this, but like I've had authors that are just like I Struggled writing this, or I did not enjoy writing this story. And I'm like, you can tell. Like the reader can tell. But like, and but then it's like, I think it's and I feel so bad saying it, but I we but we can tell. And but then so like when the author has fun, like the reader has fun reading it. So it's just like you can tell.
Martha WatersAnd it's so I had a really hard time writing my third book, which was also like the middle book in my five book Regency series, because it was the first one I'd actually written from start to finish after my first book came out. There was a lot of pressure, and it was 2020 when I was trying to write it, which is not a great time to try to do really anything. Um and I remember when it got like we're in the ramp up to publication, I wanted to speak honestly about my experience of writing it because it had been really, really tough. Like I had tossed out like 10 aborted first drafts. Like it was really like once I finally hit on something, it was it like flowed. I know I hadn't like done the right thing, but it was so stressful and anxiety inducing trying to write that book. But I remember feeling a little hesitation about like speaking honestly about that for a while because I was worried people would have that exact reaction of like, well, you didn't enjoy writing this. I can tell I didn't enjoy reading it.
JordanI take my comment back for that third book.
Martha WatersAnd it is funny just because like it like the experience of writing a book can be so different. And sometimes it's like you look back on a book that you had a really hard time writing and you just feel really, really proud of it, like almost because it was so hard to write that you are like really proud of yourself when you get to the end, like for getting to something you're happy with. Um, versus sometimes when a book is just like so easy and fun and like joyful to write that you feel fondly about it just because like you remember the experience of writing it itself being like so fun. Um I don't know. I I feel like I feel differently about I have very fond feelings, obviously, for all the books that I've written, but I do think it's like different things about it. Like for some of them, it was like the experience of writing that makes me feel so like fondly just sort of towards them. For some of them, it's like the reaction the book got. For some of them, it's like feeling really proud of like where I ended up. So I don't know. It's you know, they're all my children and I love them equally, but differently.
Soundtrack Vibes And A Challenging Heroine
JordanNo, I and very, very true, very true. If you could pick only one song to pair or sum up the book, what song would you pick?
Martha WatersI'm always so bad at this because I don't listen to an idiot. I am not gonna like actually pay attention to what the lyrics are of songs that I'm listening to. So there are songs that I'll listen to when I'm writing a book, and like it's all about the mood of the song. And so an album that I was listening to a bunch when I was working on this book was okay, I never know if I'm pronouncing her name right correctly. Leve, the Icelandic singer, L-A-U-F-E. I think it's Leve is how you actually pronounce it. But um, she's like there's like I love her, she's really good. She does sort of like jazzy pop almost. It's like those there's like like a millennial Gen Z take on like jazz. It's really, really fun, and it felt like a perfect vibe for this sort of like 1920s, but sort of cheeky, modern feeling book. So I was listening to her most recent album, which is called A Matter of Time, I believe. And they're my favorite song on the album is called Lover Girl, and the like lyrics don't 100% apply to Vesper, but like some of them work for her, and just like the mood of the song to me, like so purposely captures just sort of like the vibe of the book overall. And I did listen to it probably 50 times while I was working on this book, like during edits and stuff. So it will always make me think of this book.
JordanOoh, now I need to go listen to that song. Uh, what do you hope readers understand about the story or characters that might not be obvious at first?
Martha WatersI guess with this one, I just really hope that people I feel like Vesper when I was writing her, I deliberately wrote her to be a character that I think some people might find challenging. Just, I don't know, she's a little bit flighty, she's a little bit spoiled. It's a little bit, especially at the beginning of the book. Like, I don't remember I specifically wrote a line where I was like this was gonna like make some readers not like her, where she said so she had making some offhanded comment about like not being terribly political or something, which is like a very like privileged daughter of a wealthy family sort of thing. Like you don't have to be political because everything in your life like works out pretty well for you. Um, and I think over the course of the book you see her like kind of go through a journey and she really comes to understand Max's point of view on magic somewhat, even though it's he he also comes to understand her point of view, and so that was kind of my goal is to get them to kind of both move towards each other. But yeah, I guess I just hope that people are generous when they're reading Vester because I love her and she is like one of my favorite heroines that I've written. Um but I don't know, I just I I I worried a little bit about there being like a subset of reader who's just kind of like a like maybe maybe reads her in like a less gives her a less generous reading than I would hope people would approach her with. So I would say if you find her challenging in any way as the giving, just give it time because I love her. So just just keep reading.
JordanJust keep reading, don't stop. You've been writing and having your books published for a few years
Debuting In 2020 And Industry Whiplash
Jordannow. Have you noticed a difference from your debut book to this one? And this could be in the publishing sphere, in the genre, in writing, in whatever.
Martha WatersYeah, I think there's like a lot of answers to that question. On the writing side, the thing that everyone kind of jokes about that it's true, is that like it doesn't actually get any easier. Like it's not like you think like, oh, I should know what I'm doing by now, and it should get easier to write a book. But really, I think you just learn and get better, and so your expectations for yourself like get higher, and so it doesn't actually feel any easier. Actually, it starts to feel harder. Like I actually don't feel as like free when I'm writing as I did when I was writing my first book because then I was just writing for fun, not the expectation that anyone, I mean, I hope someone would read it, but like you have no idea you don't even have an agent, you have no idea. Um, whereas now it feels more difficult. Um, so my d discouraging answer is I actually think writing maybe gets harder the more you do of it, which is not what anyone wants to hear, but from my experience, um publishing in general, I don't know. I feel like it's been a really wild time since I debuted, honestly, because I debuted in April 2020, which obviously was a terrible time to have your debut novel come out, and also it's weird because I couldn't do in-person events, and it's just a weird time in publishing.
JordanTrue. Well, I I'm kind of curious though, because I know like debuting in April 2020, it is a crazy time, but I feel like too especially like I feel like the world kind of shut down in March, and then in April, people really didn't know what to do. So I th I kind of thought people were reading more.
Martha WatersThey were, but it was hard if you were a debut because you weren't like an author they knew to like look for. So if you were someone who had like a big backlist or like was well known to readers, I think it was an advantage because they were like, I don't have anything else to do. Like, this could be fun. It was hard for debuts though, just because like no one knew us yet. Also, like, I don't know, even like a few months later, bookstores had really kind of figured out how to do virtual events and stuff. And bookstores were like open for browsing and stuff, even if like you like maybe like you could at least go and do like curbside pickup at a bookstore where it's like my bookstrop was just like completely closed. Like, I didn't see my book in a bookstore for like almost three months after it came out because the bookstores weren't open, and like I was even when even though they did reopen, I was like scared to go into them because I didn't want to catch COVID. And like they hadn't really figured out how to do like virtual events yet. So I just did an Instagram live like by myself for my book launch day because like the local bookstore hadn't like pivoted to doing virtual stuff yet. Um but then like I don't know, for me personally, like the weird thing was that Bridgerton came out that following Christmas and there's a huge boost to the historical romance genre. And so my sales actually got a lot better. And it was a few months before my second book came out. My second book is still my best selling of all my books, and I always joke, I was like, Yeah, Bridgerton saved my career. Um, so I had a very strange experience um in that regard. And then now, of course, like has but now we've gone from like that where like everyone wanted a historical romance, like I was getting lots of media coverage and everything. My books were selling. I mean, I wasn't like a big bestseller, but like they were selling pretty well. And then now it's the you know, five years on, everyone's like historical romance is dead, and publishers are like canceling people's contracts, even authors who have like been with them a long time. To be honest with the whole experience has been a real lesson in just like understanding that publishing is a roller coaster and that things come in like trends and waves, and you just have to kind of like riot it out as best you can. Also, in the time that I like when I started publishing, like book talk wasn't a thing at all. Um, it was like 2021 when I think books were really starting to take off on TikTok and like the whole whole like book talk influence became clear. So it is truly, I'm like, I feel like I haven't been around for that long, but just in the amount of time that I've been publishing, I feel like it has been a wild time in publishing and I feel like I'm seeing a lot, um, which in some senses makes you kind of like, oh my God, this industry is insane. And I feel very jaded about it. But also in some ways I just kind of feel philosophical about it because I'm like, listen, this is all wild, and I can't really do anything about any of this other than just keep writing books and hoping that someone will buy them. So it kind of almost encourages me to be like, I'm not gonna try to like stress about this too much because really I don't know what's gonna happen next. Like it's just it's it's been a wild ride. It's it's just a vibe.
JordanIt's just a vibe out there. But I also feel like it's really good for you and like what you've done so far because you did, I feel like you're really good at pivoting, even just from going from Regency, then you did this uh murder mystery, and then you have this uh like magical uh with a mystery fantasy fantasy, a romance, a mystery, like how would it be like it's like three genres in a one throw them all in the pot and write out. But I feel like that's really good because I feel like you see a lot of authors writing in one genre, but you really are like pivoting and writing in different genres because that and then that's scary too of like historical romances, just like contracts being canceled and not you.
Martha WatersIt's interesting because I just this is just for me so far, all the decisions I've made have just been like my brain having an idea and wanting like I when I finished my Regency series, I had like wasn't like I'm never writing historical romance again. I was just like, I would like a little bit of a break from doing this. I did five books, they tried something different. Um my idea was like this murder mystery 1930s thing. And then I had this idea next. Um, and um I guess like for me, it's unfortunate that my brain kind of works this way where I get bored if I do one thing for too long. You do run the risk of like you don't want to switch it much too often because it basically means that you're trying to like build a new audience with every single book. Um, so I would I would like to try to write another like fantasy rom-com like this next, um, just to kind of like try to build an audience from this book. Just so I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel with every single book. Um, because this will be my fourth book in a row in a different subgenre. Um my last Regency book, a contemporary Christmas rom com, a murder mystery historical romance, and now a historical fantasy rom-com with a mystery element. So that's that's four subgenres in a row. So um you gotta go for everybody. Yeah. I this is what I think. And my thing is I always think that even though the subgenres might change, they're all still romance novels. And I think they all my pitch to readers is always like, if you liked one of my books, odds are you would like one of the other ones, even if it's not in the same subgenre, because I think they feel the same, even if they aren't the same. Like I think they feel like like if you liked something about my writing or like the voice, like my authorial voice or whatever, I think you would like other of my books too, even in a different subgenre.
JordanSo and I think that that's a very good point. And I think that is
Advice For Aspiring Traditional Authors
Jordanvery true. Uh okay, so I do have a question on do you have any advice for someone who wants to write, be an author to be a traditionally published author?
Martha WatersUm, my number one piece of advice is like it sounds really dumb and boring, but I really think it's true. And it really is you need to read a lot because I just think I think it shows. Like, I think if you are someone who's trying to write books and you don't read that extensively, I think it shows in your writing. I think that just reading a lot of the kind of book that you want to write is like the best education and craft you can find. Um, I think I also would caution people about trying to write towards trends, like, oh, romanticy is really hot right now, and you're thinking I see romantic on all the bestseller list. Like, let me try to write like a, you know, scene like Fourth Wing or Avatar or something. I would caution you traditional publishing is slow. The root traditional publishing is writing a whole book, getting an agent, and the agent selling it to an editor, and then it'll probably be anywhere between like a year to 18 months to even two years before that book actually hits shelves. And trends change a lot. I've already heard like feedback from people in publishing that they're worried about romanticity getting oversaturated. And trying to predict what the next trend is is so hard. And you're much better served writing a book that's something that you love, that you really want to write. I think that joy and like affection for whatever it is you're writing will shine through on the page. And I just always I think trying to write to the market is like really hard and oftentimes isn't end that well. Um, so I would add, I don't know, my advice is read a lot and write what you love.
JordanI think that is perfect advice because going back to the romanticy thing, I'm even seeing it now. Like I follow some book talk creators and bookstagrammers, and they're getting sick of the romanticy out there. It's just the same thing. It's almost like a rinse and repeat. And like, don't get me wrong, I do think the Rebecca Yarris is, the Sarah J. Mass is, like the bigger authors in the space that were in the space for a bit, and I don't think anything will happen to them. I think they'll always have their readers. But it's it's the new ones because they're entering the space with so many other people that it's hard to complete it. And that's just like what I'm saying. But I do I do agree with you that I think writing to trends can be a bit tough. And I think trends can change so fast, and I think trends are very cyclical. So like you write something now that you love, it could be something that comes back and you never know. But then I guess you could say the same thing for romanticy. But if that's the trend now, it will be a minute before it comes back.
Martha WatersIt'll be a while. We're just now seeing like they're starting to publish dystopian stuff again. 10 years. It's been like 10 years since they kind of burned out on that, like in the wake of like Divergent, and then like the 20 books after like Hunger Games and Div There's Hunger Games, and there was Divergent, and then there was like 20 others, and then they kind of were like, Oh, this might be too much. Um, but now it's like 10 years later, and we're starting to see it crop up again. So like in another 10 years, I bet there'll be like a new wave of like something like fourth wing or something. But things come and go. This probably thing about this whole like current downturn in historical romance. I'm like, I don't know, something will pop up again, and then it'll get popular again eventually. But um, it's just hard to predict. And yeah, like so I just I I would not base, I would not be too mercenary about what you're trying to write. Just write something that you enjoy.
JordanIt's good advice. Uh, okay, so we have the last question in authoring. Uh, are you currently working on any future projects? And if so, is there anything you can tell us about them?
Martha WatersI'm working on something right now. I can't say anything about it yet. Um I it's an idea that I it's actually I had I had the idea last year while I was it's like a typical thing where you start working on one thing and then immediately something else um seems more appealing because uh something that you're not under contract for, there are no deadlights attached to it's like I want to do this instead. So I got the idea for this one while I was working on Spellstruck. Um it's one of my favorite premises for anything I've been working on in quite a while. Um and it's just I just think it's fun. And I was having a lot of fun writing it, and um it has a magical element in it also. And it is a romance novel, obviously. I'm not insane. Um so I hope to be able to say more about it in the future. But for now, it's no one's no one other than me, my agent, has read any any bit of it. So it feels very much I'm very much in that stage of like, oh, it's just sort of this like private thing that I'm working on, which actually is my favorite part of writing a book when like no one knows anything about it, and I'm just like in a little cave working away. So I'm in my cave phase right now.
JordanGotta gotta keep it in the cave for now. I like it, but it's exciting that there will be something coming down the pipeline that's also magical. So that's very exciting. Uh okay, so we'll dive into reading.
Favorite Writers And What She Reads
JordanAre there any authors who you looked up to before coming an author, or even authors that you look up to now?
Martha WatersOh my gosh, like so many. The ones that uh to narrow it down, I guess, to the ones that are like really relevant to the stuff that I'm writing currently, like the ones that got me into reading romance would be like Julia Quinn, Loretta Chase, Lisa Clapas, Eloise James, Tessa Dare, sort of like that era of historical romance authors are the reason that I wanted to write a historical romance and got me into writing all romance, really. They were sort of my gateway drug into the genre, was just those like big guns of historical romance. And I am just endlessly grateful to them and their books uh for inspiring me. Especially because they really showed me how funny historical romance could be, which is really what what appealed to me about it is sort of like the banter and just the sense of humor in the genre. And so I'm really like Julia Quinn, Loretta Chase, and Tessa Dare especially are just so funny. And I was like, oh my gosh, I would love to write a book as funny as their books are. Um, that's sort of been my goal ever since. Um currently, since I'm working on fantasy, I read, I still have I've always read a lot of fantasy even when I started reading romance. Some of these fantasy, there's so many good fantasy authors right now. A couple of my like current favorites that really inspire me are um Freya Marsk, who wrote um, she writes queer fantasy with like a really strong, like really strong romantic subplot. Like aw, really sort of straddles the fantasy romance line. Like they're so good. Um, A Marvelous Light was her like first one that was like kicking off a trilogy set in like Adordy in England. Um she wrote Sword Cross last year, which was like this amazing fantasy set in like a third, like alt, alt universe. Like it's I love her stuff. And then um H.G. Perry writes standalone fantasy, and they're not romances, they sometimes have a romantic element in them, but they really are like proper like fantasy. But she's so talented. She like hops around, like one of them was a Dickens retelling, one of them was set in like the interwar years in England, one of them I was uh The Magician's Daughter, I always describe to people as like Diana Wynn Jones for grownups. Like she's hops around and is I just read her an arc of her newest one that is like a Arthurian, like King Arthur inspired one set in like World War II Wales. Um, so if there are fantasy readers out there who are looking for a new author, HG Perry is one that I would highly recommend. And whenever I read one of her books, I'm like, I wish I could write books this good.
JordanThose sound kind of like interesting, like you wouldn't think of those adding like those into a fantasy. Yeah.
Martha WatersYep, it's amazing.
JordanI need to look those up. Uh, what is your favorite quote that you have ever written? And it could be in any book you have ever written.
Martha WatersA lot of my favorite quotes were from my debut because I was just like flinging, like it's like flinging spaghetti animal because I was like, ha ha ha ha, I'm ready. Everything I think is funny in here. But actually, I think my funniest book maybe was last year's, and then there was the one which is the murder mystery mashup with uh a romance novel. And the hero of that one is I described him as a posh himbo, which he's not really a himbo, but he gives him bo, he gives a himbo vibe, even though it's not a totally accurate description of him. It's a real black cat golden retriever vibe between him and the heroine. Um, and there's a somewhat inappropriate. I was afraid my editor was gonna make me cut it with the risk of offending anyone religious, but there's a scene where he's like discussing with the heroine how he had like gone to like a church service in the little like village Anglican church um to like do some sleuthing, and then he's comes back to the house to tell her all about it, and he's like talking about the bit with the food, and she's like the food? Like, what are you he's like, I was really hungry. That was the favorite part of the whole service. And she's like, Oh, do you mean like the coffee hour afterwards? And he's like, No, they give you the wine, the biscuit. And she's like, That's amazing. I laugh when I wrote it. I laugh when I read it. It remains me my favorite joke I've ever written.
JordanSo that is actually amazing. I love it. Okay, so then I know you've kind of mentioned that you were uh like you read a lot of fantasy, but still I kind of want to ask what genre is your go-to genre to read? And that could be like right now. Like, is it still fantasy, or would you say like something else?
Martha WatersA lot of fantasy. I read a lot of uh historical mysteries, but like ones that have a romance in them. I'm like, no, I'm not just a straight mystery. That's too much plot for me. There has to be like a a handsome, like gentleman detective that the Lady Sleuth is like have a slow burned romance that's over like four books. Like Deanna Rayborn is really good for that. She's my favorite mystery authors. Um, yeah, a lot of fantasy, a lot of mysteries, a lot of historical romance, just always. I'm I'm in a bit of a rereading phase right now. So I'm about to go back and reread um a bunch of Julianne Long books. Um, and I was also thinking of rereading all of like Lisa Clayton's Wallflowers books. So yeah, just fantasy. Mystery, romance. Just uh I got I got them going on a loop at all times, basically.
JordanI like it. And then it it definitely shows with you saying the advice of read a lot of what you want to write. Yeah. Literally the things that you write. So I love it. Uh so this is my favorite question to ask everybody, but what is your favorite book? A book that you would recommend to anyone and everyone. Your like favorite.
Martha WatersI know I always struggle with this because I this other one you get you often get asked, obviously, as an author. And I'm always like, I have like 15 favorite books. I tend to like answer differently from like month to month. I like pick one from the list. Uh the one that's been on my mind a lot lately, because I'm about to reread it because it's been a while. And the one that I feel like a lot of people know about, but is not as widely read as I think it should be, is I Capture the Castle by Dodie Smith, which is a diary-style book from it's like the 30s. I don't know. The author of Dodie Smith is who wrote um 101 Domations, actually, um, which was a book before it was a movie. Um, and she's that author. And um, but I Capture the Castle is a real classic. It was like out of print for years. It went back in print like 15 years ago and has never been out of print since then. Um, and it is, yeah, it's a diary-style book set in like the sometime in the interwar period in England. And it's this girl whose family lives in like genteel poverty in this crumbling castle, and it's incredibly charming. It is, I have a real dream of writing a historical romance. It's like an homage to this book, actually, where like a family moves out into the countryside and like deliberately chooses a crumbling castle to live in just so they can kind of like live that like aristocrats who have fallen on hard times lifestyle. Um, but it's just like it's super charming. It's like it's like a real coming of age book, and it's one that I first read as a teenager, but I find myself returning to just over and over again. And I I I love it and I wish more people would read it.
JordanOkay, I've never heard of that, but my favorite like movie as a kid was 101 Dumb Asian. So now I need to look this book up. Highly recommend. Okay, so we're in the last section, and it's the last four questions.
Plotting Style Walks Fun Facts
JordanTime just flew by, but we still have four more. So would you say you're a plotter, pantster, or a mix of the two?
Martha WatersI always describe myself as a panther who has aspirations to be a plotter. And so I'll trick myself into thinking, like, oh, this is gonna be the one where I can stick to the outline, but I'll try. The problem is I'll I'll do an outline and then I immediately like I veer off course so much that it then it becomes useless because the like later part of the outline is no longer relevant to like the thing because like things have changed so much earlier in the draft. Um, I did try the flashlight method method for a book a few books ago where you like outline one chapter, like you outline a chapter, then you write the chapter. And then when you've once you've written the chapter, you then outline based on how the book. So then it's like you're planning a little bit, but you're not like stuck adhering to an outline that like get becomes like outdated if you like veer off course at all. So you're just outlining like a little bit ahead. It's the whole like like you're following the light of the flashlight, but not beyond that, basically. So that method actually works for me pretty well. So I I've been trying that more recently, but yeah, no, I I mean some of my books fully from start to finish, like no outline. Like I don't I it's chaotic over here. I do not recommend my method of writing a book to anyone, honestly, but it's the one that works for me somehow, some way they get published. So who knows?
JordanYou know, you you gotta do what's best for you. So that's what's best for you. Um when you're not writing or reading, what do you do in your free time?
Martha WatersUm, I do a lot of this I don't want to call it hiking because it's like that makes me sound way more outdoorsy than I am. I really love to walk. It's like a like, and I mean I like like long walks. Like living is really nice because uh there's really good like rail connections. But I live in London, so I'll take the train like an hour and a half outside of London to the countryside and then walk, like get get off the train in some cute little village, and then walk because there's an extensive network of like public footpaths like throughout the whole like British countryside. I'll walk like 10 or 12 or 15 miles to like another village and then catch the train home. You can like stop along the way and like have like a like pub lunch. One time my friend and I did it with her dog, and so we like walked like 10 miles, and then we like there was a pub right by the train station. So we went to the pub and had like a pint before we caught the train home. Like I'm not hiking, I'm not like scaling mountains. I just like walking extremely long distances in the countryside.
JordanWait, that is so cool, and that's probably so pretty, too.
Martha WatersYeah, the things you like see, I'm just they have a lot of like they have a lot of like long distance footpaths, but obviously it's a much smaller country. So, like here in the US, like a long distance path is like you know, the PCT or like the Appalachian Trail or something where it's like, okay, I'm not gonna hike thousands of miles, that's too much. But like there's like a some long, there's like a long couple of long distance paths in the UK that are like a hundred miles. So you could you could do the whole thing in like a week or something, just walking like 15 miles a day. And I really want to do, and you can like, and since it's like such a small country, you can like do it from village to village where you stay in inns the whole way instead of having to like camp in the woods. And so I really wanna do a trip. I was thinking about doing one this summer, but I think it might be a next year thing of like you can just there's a path in Northumberland called the Hadrian's Wall Path, and it's 90, 90 miles, and you can do like 15 miles a day, you can do it in six days and just stay in an inn each night. And uh, so that's that's my my UK bucket list to do while so long as I'm living over there.
JordanOh my gosh, that is so cool. And yes, you should uh 1000% do that, and then I can live vicariously through you um in America, and I'm just like jerping along over here. Perfect. What is a fun fact about you that the that your readers and the listeners might be surprised to learn?
Martha WatersMy go-to fun fact whenever I have to do this in like an icebreaker at like work or something, because it's like they ask you this at like work things, and it's like, I don't know. And then you're like years ago, I was like, I need to actually sit down and think of like what a fun fact about me is. And the thing I landed on that like is a thing that people don't know about me because it's stupid and not that interesting, is that uh I can say the alphabet backwards really fast because when I was in college, I learned, okay, to be clear, I do not think you should drink and drive, but I have never like gotten a D UI or anything. I this is not like knowledge I was trying to like scam the police. I just learned that one of the ways they test for sobriety is to ask you to say the alphabet backwards if they pull you over. And I remember thinking, God, even if I was sober, I'm not sure I could say the alphabet backwards. Like, that's hard. Like, I hope this never happens to me. And so then I was like, it became like a fun challenge. I was like, I want to teach myself the alphabet backwards and see how fast I can say it. And so I got to where it's been like I'm pretty rusty for a while. I was just doing it like a party trick though, um, but was like the main purpose of learning to do this, because I'm not out there drinking and driving, obviously. Um but I got to where I could say it like quite fast. And so I would like bust it out these work icebreakers, and people are like, This is the weirdest, most useless skill. And I was like, correct. There is literally no use to it whatsoever. I just wanted to see if I could do it. So yeah, if you ever if you ever need someone uh to say the outfit backwards, you really could I can do it.
JordanOh my goodness. Yeah, because like I hear about that too, like when the police pull you over and I wouldn't even be able to say it sober.
Martha WatersI mean, like, it's like I mean, is it a good test of whether you're drunk or just a test of like it's a hard thing to do? Like I'd be like, V? Yeah. Y X No, I can do it fast now.
JordanYou're like, I got jokes on you guys. I can do it.
Martha WatersYeah, I'm all set.
JordanHa. Okay. So we're on the last question. And I just have what is one future goal that you would like to achieve, either long term or short term? And it could be in writing, author, publishing, personal, anything.
Martha WatersI I I think I I still cause like my goal for so long as a kid, obviously, because I was like child reading children's books, but even when I was in college in like my early 20s, I really wanted to write a children's book. And I kind of set that aside once I realized how much I love writing romance. But you know, I I am a children's librarian, I work with kids, I read a lot of like Kidlet for my work as a librarian. I love reading children's books, and I just would really, really love to write one one day. It's one of those things where I sometimes think about just like writing one by hand in a journal with like a fun, like side project while I'm working on like a one of my contracted books, just like as a way to blow up theme. So maybe, maybe this will be the year that I start doing that. But yeah, I would I would love to write a kid's book.
JordanYou will. One day you will. Can you can you draw? Like, would you draw or would you have someone else draw?
Martha WatersNo, I would need someone else to draw. And I and I really what I would love to do is like the sort of it's not quite a picture book, but not quite like a like middle grade, like Harry Potter like thing or anything. I would love to do something in the kind of space of sort of like beginning chapter books where they're like 80 to 100 pages long, but still have illustrations. Um, I have an idea for one that I think would fit well in that kind of like age range of like a seven or eight-year-old and um like that length. And it's just a matter of actually buying the time to sit down and write it. And also I have no idea if I'm good at it because I don't write for children currently. So I'm like, am I good enough to actually publish one of these? Who knows? But I freak a lot of them, I freak a lot of them to work. I in order to do that.
JordanYeah, there's there's only one way to find out. Well, I so my best friend had a baby in October, and my big thing is like I want to buy like books for the like baby, and I know the baby can't read yet, yet, but um, I was in like the children's section and I'm buying like books, and you know, I saw that they have classics in like children, like written for children, and I thought that was the coolest thing. Like I saw little women in like the children's section, and it's a stunning edition. And I'm like, I want this for my bookshelf.
Martha WatersI know there are so many really beautifully packaged kids' books out there now. Um, they have I don't know, and like the current art style that's like in vogue for both like picture books and just for like cover art for kill kids' books is so beautiful. There's a children's bookshop in my neighborhood of London that I go to a lot and spend all my money there and then spend all my money on postage mailing them back to various kids of my life, like in the state. Um, but I can't help it because there's so many good kids' books out there. Um, so perhaps perhaps one day my book will be in there.
JordanWe'll see. Your book will be among the pretty books out there in the children's section. It will happen. We are manifesting this. It will happen. Okay.
Where To Find Martha Waters
JordanWell, that was all the questions I had for you. Thank you so much for coming on. I do want to give you the floor, like where people can find your books, um, where people can find you. And yeah.
Martha WatersSo books are wherever books are sold, theoretically. Um I would hope. Um, then uh information on all my books is on my website, which is just MarthaWaters.com. Um, in terms of social media, I'm really only on Instagram somewhat intermittently, more often lately, um, at Martha. Oh god, what is my Instagram handle? Martha B. Waters, because that is troubling. Martha B. Waters is my Instagram handle. And I'm also um I do a newsletter that is I always describe it as like infrequent. Uh, so it's kind of when the mood strikes me, um, it's on Substack. So it's just MarthaWaters.substack.com. And I usually give updates on and like sneak peeks at whatever I'm working on. And then I also offer recommendations of things that I'm reading and just also sometimes random other things that I like as well, like a more recent one with a brand of shortbread that I think is actually only available in the UK. And so it's completely impractical as a recommendation for my largely American audience. But again, whatever mood strikes me, really, it's it's chaotic out here. So yeah, find me on Substack also.
JordanPerfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and letting me interview you. I had the best time asking you all the questions about just in general and about spell strike. So thank you.
Martha WatersWell, thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.