Fantasy Romance With Teeth with Margarita Artista

A romantasy author explains how stories become meaningful...

A phoenix hatches in a college dorm and nothing stays normal. We’re joined by fantasy romance author Margarita Artista, creator of The Phoenix Keeper, to talk about how an urban fantasy romance can deliver the swoon while still carrying a serious punch of meaning. 

From there, we zoom out into craft and publishing. Margarita breaks down a real-world writing process: plotting big, rewriting early drafts as you grow, and learning when “perfect” is the enemy of “done.” We also talk self-publishing with Kindle Direct Publishing, what it feels like to rack up agent rejections, and why a small press can be a sweet spot between indie freedom and traditional publishing structure.

If you love romantasy, forced proximity tension, and fantasy that actually has something to say, hit play. Subscribe for more author interviews, share this with a writer friend, and leave a review telling us what theme you want fiction to tackle next.

Follow Margarita on IG: @margarita.artista

https://www.margaritaartista.com/

Cover Art by: moi

Intro/Outro Music: positive vibes by nanaacom on Capcut

Contact Email: spillthesmutpodcast@gmail.com

Podcast IG: @spillthesmutpodcast TT: @spillthesmutpodcast

Jordan IG: @sipsoffiction TT: @sipsoffiction

Transcript

Welcome And Quick Catch Up

Jordan 0:00

She's an author of fantasy romances with a punch of female rage, which, if you ask us, is the perfect combination. She's been telling stories for as long as she's been able to hold a pen, creating worlds that feel both deeply relatable and like the ultimate romantic escape. And honestly, who doesn't want that? You can dive into our debut urban fantasy series, The Phoenix Keeper Now. If you're a fan of Sloper Intention, One Bed, Forced Proximity, and a He Falls First moment that will have you kicking your feet, you definitely want to add this to your TBR. Please welcome to the podcast, Margarita Artista. Hi, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Margarita Artista 0:44

Hi, thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

Jordan 0:47

I am so excited to chat with you. All things books and writing and publishing and just all of it. Lovely. Before we get into that, I do want to ask you what has been the highlight of your week so far.

Margarita Artista 1:03

Oh my goodness. Okay, let me think. Um, okay, pro well, actually, it is book related, but I am on the last chapter of book three. I'm writing it like as we not as we speak, but like literally after this, I'm gonna go and like write some more of it. I'm so excited for this book to almost be done, and um, I just can't wait for it to come out. So I'm just I'm I'm thrilled about it.

Jordan 1:30

That is so exciting. Is it almost like bittersweet too? Because isn't this supposed to be like a trilogy? So this is the last book.

Margarita Artista 1:37

It's not, so it's five books. Um, okay. Then you're like you could five. But it is, it's always bittersweet. It's always bittersweet to close a chapter of their story and move on to the next. But um, the nice thing is then it exists forever.

Jordan 1:51

So true. That's true. So you can always come back to it and you're like, oh, there you are. Here you are. Like, oh, why did I write that?

Margarita Artista 2:03

Exactly.

Jordan 2:04

There. Uh do you ever like that? Okay, now I'm curious. Do you ever like go back and read something and you're like, oh, I should have written that differently? And then do you? Do you, or are you just kind of like, no, no, I'm gonna leave it as is.

Margarita Artista 2:18

Realistically speaking, I think, and most artists that I've talked to have a similar you you theoretically could go on forever. Like you a product, it's you that decides the product it's is finished. You could refine something for the rest of your life. So absolutely, I I do go back and I look and I'm like, oh, like if I had just done this, like, or something, like absolutely, but I think that's kind of that's the balance of finding way, like you need to know when to call it because you could otherwise it'll never end.

Jordan 2:55

That is a good point. That is a good point, because I feel I I mean I don't write, but I feel like just going back and just always wanting to change something in your you're right, you could always change it. Something will sound better one day, but then you could go back another day and the other thing sounds better. So I think there's but I guess that's also kind of nice because then there's no right or wrong answer, it's just whatever.

Margarita Artista 3:19

It's a perfectionist curse, I think.

Jordan 3:22

Yeah, yeah.

Margarita Artista 3:24

It's it's it's unfortunate. I agree. It's unfortunate, but okay.

Jordan 3:30

So before we dive into your series, I do kind of want to ask you like some questions. So, like, what inspired you to become an author and to write this series?

Margarita Artista 3:40

I think it's it's common uh with most authors there that they love to read. Um, and so I was I was a huge reader growing up myself. And specifically, I really

Reading Roots And Early Inspiration

Margarita Artista 3:51

um as I I kind of came into my early teens, sort of that was when I think I started really getting drawn to the whole kind of fantasy um elements and also a bit of dystopian as well. I'm a huge dystopian reader. I Hunger Games, I remember, was like literally, I think, I think Aragon is the one that I always tote as the book that made me want to write fantasy specifically, but Hunger Games was the one that was like, I want to do this, like I want to have this kind of impact. Like this is this was su it was such an impactful read for me. And I think actually at the time, if I remember correctly, I think it was actually the book we were studying in grade eight, or one of the books that we were studying, um, as like it was all coming, like the movies were coming out and everything. So it was it just felt really um real and like yeah, I was like, this is that I want to be Suzanne Collins. That's what I that's that's what I want to be.

Jordan 4:49

I totally get that to a degree, because like though I am not a writer and I don't think I can't I give you guys so kudos because I can't write, but I love that series, and that's the series that got me into writing writing, into reading, because like I just like fell in love with those characters and her writing, and that series is everything, and then the movies are as equally good and can stand on their own, but like you can compare it to the books, and they work so well in my mind, and I just like I love everything about them. I also love Jennifer Lawrence, so there's that too.

Margarita Artista 5:31

Yeah, that's also a yeah, plus right.

Jordan 5:34

I think she was the perfect catness, and I just I just love everything about that series, so I I totally agree with you, and I I'm actually so happy that Dystopian is in a way making a comeback because I just love Dystopian so much.

Margarita Artista 5:50

It's it's it's interesting because like um like I feel like fantasy, dystopian, like though kind of that's when I feel you can have the most impact because people aren't thinking about the applications to the real world. But it is like, I mean, she you can see the applications and the the you know the sort of allegory that she's drawing to a lot of what's even like going on today. Um and like video video games are another like I still have the same thing where like a good video game with a good story, you can see I probably I don't know if you know who that is, but that's um from Baldur's Gate 3, it's a starian, um, who is like my video game love. Um and his but his story is really about um like escaping sort of the the control and he the interesting thing about the video game Baldur's Gate 3 is that you have different choice your choices shape kind of the game. So there's multiple endings to the game, and so there's kind of like evil endings and good natured endings, and so like one he's one of the characters that really it depending on which way you kind of go with the game, it really shapes how he turns out in the end. And it's very it's yeah, so it's it's all those things. It's kind of like a choose that's why I kind of like video games like that. It's kind of like a choose your own book ending. So, and I've always been, I mean, Legend of Zelda is another one that like I played all throughout my childhood and um really inspired part of like my fantastical sort of um era of writing as well.

Jordan 7:21

But that's kind of cool. I'm not like I don't know video games too well. I usually get super frustrated because I could never get past a certain point and then I'd be like, I'm done, I'm out.

Margarita Artista 7:32

Yeah, fair.

Jordan 7:32

And so I never really gave video games like a shot, but I think like that's so cool, like having known like that inspire you in a way.

Margarita Artista 7:43

There's some that really good, really good um like story-driven um video games. Like Baldur's Gate 3 is a good one, Legend of Zelda is a good example. There's a couple others that even um um there's a recent one that's more it's more kind of fun and and whimsical, but it's called It Takes Two, and it's a couples video game where the the parents have become these little dolls and they're just on the verge of getting a divorce, and then you have to try and undoll them throughout like completing the various levels and stuff like that. And then through that you've you realize that they have like really good communication and they're like reliving like the good memories of their relationship and all of that. So it's a really fun sort of journey that um you know the you're unpacking kind of all of the things that have gone wrong, but you're also reliving the things that went right and how they got there in the first place, and it's a really interesting journey and so fun to play with like your partner, or my my husband and I, we played it together and that. So there's just like there's a lot I highly recommend. I although I do get it, like there are some games that are extremely frustrating. Like, I don't want to deal with this.

Jordan 8:51

I feel like the one game that I had that like as a kid was like the SpongeBob SquarePants game. I love that, and I'd I'd get stuck. I feel like I just like aged myself there, but I got stuck at like this one part of the stupid video game, and I was like, I'm over it. Yeah, I'm not doing I'm done. Can't do this.

Margarita Artista 9:13

Yeah, I have I have games like that that literally I got to a part and then I was like, that's that's it. Like I'm I'm not I and then I haven't touched them ever since, and they never went finished.

Jordan 9:23

So they don't need an end, they don't need an ending. We're good.

Margarita Artista 9:28

I know how it ends, the hero saves it, whatever. Like, we're fine, everything's great.

Jordan 9:32

Yeah, exactly, exactly. We're fine. We are fine. Um, okay, so I did want to ask you what is your writing process like?

Margarita Artista 9:43

Um, so for these particular books, which I would say this is kind of like my main writing endeavor. Um I did do I dabbled with some poetry and some children's books and stuff, but for for the fiction, which is I would consider that's my sort of my my MO,

Plotting Big And Rewriting Hard

Margarita Artista 10:00

um the it started when I was I was 15 years old when I was like, okay, I'm I'm doing this, like I'm gonna, I'm gonna try this out. Um and I hadn't had no really formal education. I mean, like in school you kind of learn the writing process, like the you know, the story, the story arc basically and stuff. So I had kind of used that information and I I decided I was like, okay, you know what I think I think would work. I have this idea that I'm gonna plot it like in point form, just like briefly the events of like the entire story as in like all what ended up being all five books. And the reason it became five books is because after I had plotted everything that I wanted to happen, I then said, okay, where would be like a good time to break up the story? So the end it ended up being five breaks. Um and then after that, um that took about two years in between high school and everything like that. Um and then I I started actually writing it when I was in my first semester of college. Um and I'm writing and writing and writing. I finished the first draft and I was like, I hate this. So I was I just looked at it, and of course, between 15 and I think I was 17 or 18 when I finished the first draft. Um I was like, there had been a lot of growth. So I had looked at things and I'm like, this this does this is not this is not reflective of the story I want to write now. Um so it took, I think the first book I rewrote like three times. Um, the second book I wrote twice. Um I had drafts for the first three books. Um, I know, and this this third book is nothing like the original third book. Um so basically my process was start with a plan, throw away the plan, do a different plan. That was my but it uh there are some things, especially in the first book and the second book, that date. That was it was that was kind of the, you know, a lot of the characters stayed the same, a lot of the character names stay the same, a lot of them changed. Um, but the the story itself, I was like, I don't want this to be a funny, silly little, you know, romantic book that I wrote when I was 15. I want this to to mean something. Like I that was I said if I'm gonna do this, it it has to mean something to me and to my readers. So that that was the the basis of like I I really don't like this because I'm not the story I want to tell is not shining through. So that was that was the process. Oh, my dog has decided to join.

Jordan 12:35

He is he has joined the chat.

Margarita Artista 12:37

Yes.

Jordan 12:38

This series you publish through Azalea Press. Now, did you ever think that you were gonna self-publish it, or did you self-publish it and then Azalea picked it up? Like, what was how did that come to be? Like, how did you end up working with a small press

From Agent Rejections To KDP

Jordan 12:55

for it?

Margarita Artista 12:56

Love Azala. Shout out. Is it Azala or Azalea? I'm like with the press and I don't even know. I feel like it's Azala.

Jordan 13:03

My bad.

Margarita Artista 13:04

I'm over here being like I could be. Let me make up my own words. MK, when you watch this back, just confirm for us in the comments. Um, if you MK is the owner, um, and she's fabulous, a fabulous person. Um, but anyways, uh yeah, so what had originally happened is I was Dululu and I thought I could send my book to when I was like in my early 20s. I'm 28 now, um, or early 20s, I was like, um, yeah, I can definitely send this to some literary agent and like somebody's gonna pick this up because this is good. Like I've, you know, I think, I don't know. Um, and then that did not happen. So I sent I must have sent it for to like over a hundred literary agents over like a couple of years before I was like, okay, you know what? I'm not gonna let someone else decide whether or not I feel like this is something I I should pursue. And self-publishing, I actually heard about it from a friend at college because they had self-published their own book and they had to really, it was just for funsies. And then I he had written an article about self-publishing in our school newspaper. And so I reached out to him and I was like, hey, I had no idea, like we've been we have classes together. I had no idea this was something you're interested in. I'm really interested in this too. Shout out to Jeff. Jeff, wherever you are. But so Jeff, uh we Jeff holds it down. Jeff Jeff was really great and he explained it to me and um and explained the process for Kindle Direct Publishing. Um, and so that was where I I was like, you know what? Okay, I'm gonna try it out, but I'm not gonna test my my love life work of my life, love of my life works yet. I'm gonna try some of my poetry that I've written, or I'm gonna try some of my to kind of test out how it would work, getting the books back, what the process was like. And I was like, you know what? Yeah, this, this, I think this is this is this is gonna work because it's not gonna prevent me from still submitting to literary agents if I self-publish my work. Um, but at the same time, I can get it out there and maybe I can start making some kind of a name for myself or whatever. So that's what I did. And I think it was November 2023 I self-published the work, um, the first book. Yeah, it went it it went it went far better than I expected it to. Um, you know, I had some some people from various locations in the world read it, and um, because it was made on uh uh an ebook version as well, I could do the free promos, and so then I would get you know downloads and people would comment that they, you know, they were enjoying it. And I was like, oh, this is really this is what you want as an author. You want to connect with your readers, really. I think that's why we do what we do. Um, but I was still submitting to agents and and um one day on Instagram um I saw Azala uh pop up in my explore page as looking for submissions. And I was like, okay, yeah, I mean, like, what's one more no, right? After the after all of the no's that you receive. But then MK uh reached out to me and said, I I would I would like the the full manuscript.

Finding A Small Press Fit

Margarita Artista 16:10

And I was like, oh my God, what? Like this is what this feels like. Like, and that's not even a yes in itself, but I was like, I le at the very least, like I've just gotten this far. And I could say that I've gotten this far. And and you know, so um, but she took the full manuscript and she was like, Yeah, I really, I really like this. We'd like to take you on. And I hadn't I had no idea at this point in time that there were kind of I think now there's like the three tiers of publishing, I want to say there's like completely self-published, and then there's sort of those indie small presses, and then there's trad. So I had no idea this really existed. Um and I I feel like it's kind of come to rise maybe within the last decade or so um with the advent of social media or whatever. And but that was how I I ended up with Azale. And I had a meeting with MK and I was like, this is this is really this is this is what I want. Like this is actually aligns really well. Um, I maintain autonomy, creative rights, um, majority of royalties, but at the same time, you get that support from sort of a publisher standpoint. And I can't thank um MK enough for everything that she's done. Um MK and the team, I should say. Now they're then now it's grown, and now there's a team and all the other authors have and and um it's just it's wonderful to feel a part of that family. Um, and yeah, I just eternal gratitude for that.

Jordan 17:27

Before these small presses, it's it was self-publishing, so you had all the control, but you had no one behind you. It was just you. And then there's traditional publishing, which as much as like you can have control, you really don't, unless you have it in the contract or you're a big author, you're not really, you're kind of like you might be able to see something, but you really don't have any say in anything.

Margarita Artista 17:58

And that to me, like the ability to maintain integrity of my work is huge. Um, because it it is it is intentional, right? So everything I I've done with it, so that would really irritate me if I found myself in that boat.

Jordan 18:14

Yeah, no, and I totally get that because it's like so and for some people that might not be that might not be a priority for them. Like for some people, they might just want like I think it's just like finding out what your goals are. Like, is your goal to be in a airport? Is your goal to like have control? Is your goal to like what what is your goal and what do you want to do? But I think too, I don't think people realize also how hard it is to get a trag deal. Like that is hard, and it's you and it's exceptionally difficult, exactly. And it's not just like you can't just submit to the publisher, you have to find an agent. So there's like multiple steps that you have to go through to get it. But I do think I think it's so cool that there is self-publishing, so you can go that route, but I also think it's so cool that there are these small presses that you can have like the help, and you have someone to like also talk with. I feel like because I think being an author can be somewhat lonely in a way, it just like writing, and you can have your author friends, but like when you're first starting out, you don't have them yet.

Margarita Artista 19:27

So it's even when it's it's so important that you mention that, I think, because a lot of I think a lot of authors that I know that we've you know, you meet at conferences and stuff, and that's when you get to really, you know, chat with other authors. And something that I notice is that even if you have like I have a really I'm I'm super grateful to have a really supportive um family. Like my husband really supports my journey, my parents have always really supported my journey, but they don't get it. Like they don't understand when I'm I'm frustrated about something or when something's not going right in my brain about work that I'm doing or whatever. It's really hard for them to to I it's hard to get into the mind of a creative if that's not naturally the way you operate or function. And it's a really it's a really frustrating process, it can be like it's a it's a it's a labor of love, and I absolutely love writing, but it it can be it's a really hard process sometimes to get something the way you you vision it and the vision is just not jiving with what's actually happening and that yeah. So it I'm so glad you mentioned that.

Jordan 20:31

Yeah, exactly. And too, it's just I feel like working with the small press, like you can even with the things that are like you're trying to write something down, you're you're like stuck on this like one scene, you can volley back and forth with someone at the press and just be like getting spitballing ideas, which honestly, even those ideas might not even be what's put in the book, but might make you think of something else that finally goes in the book. So it's like, and to not have that, or and not saying that everybody needs that, but I think that can be very helpful in a way. And I feel like it's nice that you have that, or to like when with a small press, there's so many things that I think a lot of authors, especially authors that haven't released anything yet, don't know that goes into it. Like there's way more than just writing, like you need to think about formatting. Now you think editing, the cover, the blurb, the marketing, there's like so many other things that go in it that and it's a lot. But also, like, even for me too, like I don't know the steps. So it's like if I'm like an author trying to figure out how to get my book published, I don't even know where to start. Like, let's say you have a finished book, like even then, like what's next? And so I think it's cool that you have this press. That honestly like does it for you in the some of those ways, even though you still hold control. And like you can go to them and be like, what do I do next?

Margarita Artista 22:10

Yep. Absolutely. No, it's it's it's a lot. And especially I would say the marketing piece is huge. Like it's because if you are, if you're an indie author or you're with a small press or whatever, probably I think you know it's the it's the common sort of um cry recently that I I feel more like a social media influencer than I do an actual author. Like I spend 10% of my writing career actually writing, and the 90% is just trying to make content that's trending and algorithms and all of this stuff. Like it's it's it's it's a it's a frustrating part of I think because you have to make yourself stand out if you want, you know, people to to pick up your book and read your book. Like it was never about money for me. Money is not this is not my my career, uh quote unquote. I I have a a different day job that I that I do nine to five and everything. So whether or not I make money is not not my concern, but you do want people to read what you've written. And unfortunately, um most of most of the time that means that they have to buy your book. So it's it's about it's about sort of how do I get somebody to choose to read my book in in some capacity. And you know, I I always say it all the time, if I could get the book, you know, to people for free and finance that somehow, I totally would. Um, but I would broke. So I can't I can't do that either, unfortunately.

Jordan 23:37

I mean, because even though you are you are creating this story that people should in a way pay for to consume. I so I get it. I get it. But uh you and you mentioned like having a nine to five. So how is it having a nine to five and also being an author? Like, how do you do both?

Margarita Artista 24:01

Um, it's I I think it works for me personally because I think if my um livelihood was dependent on writing, it would take the love out of it for me. It would take the joy out of writing for me. So to have something that I can depend

Writing Around A Nine To Five

Margarita Artista 24:18

on that I can focus on during the day. And then I call writing my five to nine. So nine to five, five to nine, like it's just then it's a hobby. Then it's, you know, I I give myself deadlines and I am functioning according to like the pub are my Zala's who are very flexible and and and wonderful to work with. But I am functioning according to the author timelines as well. But it's not it's never about um if I don't get this book out and I don't sell X many copies, then I like I'm not gonna eat dinner. Like that's so I think that was really important for me to strike that balance. And I don't know, if I if I won lottery money and I could quit my job tomorrow, live on that money and just write all day, then maybe I would that would be the instance in in which I would write full time, but I for in a realistic sense, I don't think that will be possible.

Jordan 25:08

Understandable. Because I do think a lot of people think too, like once you you have to do it for money and for a livelihood to like live, that's when it can become stressful. And then it's not fun, and then you're not like you're not looking forward to writing anymore. So it's like, why ruin that if you don't have to?

Margarita Artista 25:25

Yeah. Yeah, but it definitely when I'm when I'm in the trenches of writing and like I'm fully focused on writing, like other things take a lot of a backseat. Like I don't I don't do any of my personal reading as much. Um, I don't do as much of the you know the the video games or anything like that. It's really it's really that is what I'm doing in all of my free time um until the the book is finished. And then when I'm in the replotting, because now the story has changed a lot from my originally plotted ideas. So when I'm in the replotting sort of planning phase, that's when I kind of also indulge in a lot of like especially reading, because I take a lot of inspiration from other people as well. And I'm like, oh, that's a really good idea. I wonder if I could build something or twist something with this or or whatever. So um yeah, but that that when I when I'm writing, writing, writing, it's like just writing.

Jordan 26:18

Understandable, but I feel like it I'm assuming that like when you are writing, that's like when it's flowing and it's like you're getting the words down on paper or like typing on a computer and it all just kind of like flows out of you.

Margarita Artista 26:33

Yes, yeah. If I'm in the right, if I'm in the zone, yes, absolutely. And it and it just comes and it it it feels great when you're having the the worst is when you need to write and it's not happening.

Jordan 26:45

Yeah, staring at the blank page like that's no fun for anyone, no fun for anyone. Um, okay, so before we get into your series, I do want to ask one more question. And it's what advice would you give to somebody who wants to publish their own book? Whether trying to work through a small press and go that route or self-publishing, what piece of advice do you have to give someone?

Margarita Artista 27:13

Yeah, I would say um don't wait for permission. Like

Advice For First Time Authors

Margarita Artista 27:18

do what you need to do and what feels right, and you will know what feels right for your book and for your story and where it should live and and how you should get it out into the world. If you know the small presses aren't aren't working, if the trad publishing isn't working or whatever, it's self-publish. Go like put it out in the world and and just see you again, like once it's self-published, it doesn't mean that you can't, you know, change your mind someday. It doesn't mean that you can't submit to, you know, a lot of small presses and even traditional publishers, like literary agents, they will take previously published work, you know. And sometimes it helps to show that, like, hey, I self-published this and a thousand people read it in a year, or a hundred people read it in a year, or whatever, like whatever that number is. Sometimes that helps, right? Um, so yeah, don't wait for permission from anybody. Just do do it. Just do it. And you know what, you're gonna make mistakes, but you're gonna figure it out all along the way. And and it that's that's the beauty of it. And I think it it and then the work grows with you and it feels really it feels really satisfying in the end.

Jordan 28:21

That's good advice. We'll take uh Nike's saying, just do it.

Margarita Artista 28:25

Just do it, yeah. We'll add it to this. Just publish it. Just do it, gosh darn it. Yeah, just publish, just write it. And if you're in the writing phase, if you're like, oh, I have this idea and I just write it. You can't edit a blank page. You can always start again. You can always like just just write, just try, just go for it. You can always like, I mean, like it's just a delete button on the computer, right? Or it's or it's just a new page in your notebook or whatever.

Jordan 28:51

So so true, so true. Um, okay, so now we'll dive into your books. So you have the Phoenix Keeper series, which I believe books one and two are out, and then book three is out later this year. Can you give me May 15th? Yes. Oh, okay. So book three is gonna be out. Yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, perfect.

The Phoenix Keeper Elevator Pitch

Jordan 29:15

Okay, never mind. It's gonna be out, it's out. Um, when you're listening to this, yes, you got three books you can read. Um, but can you give me a little rundown of the series? Like, what is the elevator pitch that you would give people for this series?

Margarita Artista 29:30

Absolutely. So Serafine is the main character, and she has decided to go to San Diego. She from Montreal, um, and she decides to go to San Diego to pursue marine biology. Um, and while she is there, she hatches a Phoenix. Um, and that uh connects her to uh Felix Clarkson, who is our uh morally gray, very rich, but also very odd and strange uh male main character. Um and so now they are now uh forced to sort of um connect and collaborate because she cannot keep her phoenix in her dorm. Um it is much too big for that. So he offers to keep the Phoenix at the estate with his Phoenix, um, because he's also a Phoenix keeper, and that is how their you know relationship, friendship sort of ish kind of begins, and they really don't get along in the beginning because they are so vastly different, and Felix is very strange and off-putting to Seraphine. Um, and then as um, you know, she's kind of learning the ropes of her new Phoenix Keeper identity, they come across a secret that even Felix wasn't aware of. Um, and that kind of changes the entire premise of being a Phoenix keeper and and what it means, and and they just they discover a truth, essentially, that a hidden truth that they didn't know was was possible. And Serafine is like, this sounds really interesting. I want to pursue this, and Felix is like, whoa, not so fast. This sounds dangerous. Um, so there's a little bit of tension there, but they do end up pursuing this, and it becomes sort of this big adventure journey uh that they go on, which facilitates the rest of the story that later becomes sort of uh an exploration into how um social oppression occurs and systemic oppression and a fight for social justice on the basis of um power and and power struggles and and and uh politics and disparities. And um, so it all it all flows into each other. There's a there's a rhyme and a reason for it, but it I'm really passionate about it because at the end of the day, I think the main message of the story is is that there is empowerment in our differences and that we should not be punished for them, that we should be able to embrace uh one another um as we all come in this world, and that when um people decide that you know they it can't have a cap on their power seeking or their control or you know the the um sort of um oppressions they're extending on people that those uh regimes tend to fall. Um and they have in in history and they they always do. Um and so yeah, I'm really passionate about it, and uh it stems a lot from my sociological background, so that's why I really wanted to, that was what I saw studied in college, and I I really wanted to um in incorporate that in the book to that it was a very meaningful but fun and romantic read at the same time.

Jordan 32:41

Exactly. So it's that whole like what you were kind of um which is how I kind of came up with the intro for you, but it's the relatable and the escape all in once, which is kind of cool. Like you bring in real-world things, but still make it a fun escape, which I think is very cool because I think and there's because I mean, like we like we like relatable, we do, but and then we like real world things, but it can't I feel like you gotta put some hope in there. You gotta you gotta you can't just have it be sad because it's no and I and I'm I'm an optimist.

Margarita Artista 33:24

I'm I'm I'm an optimist not only because I I believe that that's the the best way to be, but uh, it's also because um I I I a lot of my sociology uh sociological studies in in university, we it is it there is a a balance to our society at when that is show thrown off balance. There is a lot of pain and a lot of struggle and whatever, but it writes itself. And we we've seen it time and time again in history. Um so I I just know that there the two shall pass and and that but but at the same time it doesn't only pass just because that's the natural order of things, it passes because people fight for it. And so it's really important to um use our voices. Um there's power in numbers, there's power in the people, um, and fight for what is right. And a a big huge thing that I also go for is that um politics, law, legal systems or whatever not necessarily always align with morality, right? Like there are some instances in which morality, I mean like murder is not good morally or legally, but there are some instances in which legality is put in place to control people because other the system otherwise is hard to control the way it was designed. And so that a recognition of that and making sure that there is a fine line where we draw morals and legality. Um so yeah, I'm really I I love working with it in the books and crafting it and making it so that, you know, when you're reading it on the surface, you can just read it as like a fun adventure and all these crazy things happen. But um, I'm hoping that a lot of readers will be able to take away sort of the inherent messaging behind it.

Jordan 35:06

Because I know one of the questions I wanted to ask is uh what is something that might that readers might not understand when they first read it, but that you want them to understand, and it's almost like this could be it.

Margarita Artista 35:22

Yeah. Yeah. Everything in the book is very intentional. Um, so

Power Systems And Social Justice Themes

Margarita Artista 35:27

there are it the characters are intentional, um, settings are intentional, uh, references are intentional, and I, you know, there's always a preface at the at the beginning of my book that basically says, look, there are some characters of of diverse races and abilities and sexualities and whatever, and this what a it this is to do is not representative of the entire group to which that person belongs. But it's a recognition that there are people, good and bad, on both sides, and that we all do good and bad things, and that we have to make tough choices, and that you know, there's everybody has a sort of moral compass. But at the at reality, at the end of the day, what's so important is that we are all on this same planet, and we all have to work together for the betterment of all. Like it's it's it's so fun, like things like climate change is like a really great example that like we spend so much time arguing about whether climate change is real or whether climate change is fake, and like there's two sides to the argument, and we pit it against each other, but in at the end of the day, the the thing is there's an earth, okay, and it's giving us clear signs that something is out of balance and something is not right. We need to spend less time arguing about the nuances and and the the you know the specifics of what that is, and just come together and say, okay, how do we make this situation better than it is? Like, and and it's so baffling to me when I watch you know these arguments take place that I'm like, why are we fighting about how to approach the problem when we could be fighting the problem?

Jordan 37:06

No, it's it's it's so true. And it's like I find it like so interesting too, because it's like I always kind of have this mindset of the earth can continue on without us. Like you see it with abandoned buildings, like you see the earth overpowering, the plants are taking over the building because if we're not here, the earth continues on. But like we destroy the earth, like it will also continue on, but it will kill us. So it's like whatever you want to like decide on what's going on, it's like if we don't do something, we'll die. But the earth's gonna be fine because the earth will be able to continue on. But we can't. Like, so I just I also think that's so interesting because people are like, like you said, they're literally fighting of like whether it's real or not. And it's like, well.

Margarita Artista 38:00

Well, regardless of whether you you believe it's climate change or or something else, divine intervention, whatever it is, we know that we're seeing very strange, you know, weather patterns. We know that we're seeing an increase in weather events and things that are harming people. So clearly something's not jiving. We can argue about what it is, yeah. We can argue about what it is. We can argue about, you know, why don't we put all of that aside and say, what's actually going on here and how do we fix it? That's that's yeah. But we're very complicated creatures. We don't like to do that, apparently.

Jordan 38:38

Honestly, though. You're you're honestly. Um, okay, so uh going back to your story, um, how did this like how did your series like the idea of it come to you?

Margarita Artista 38:52

Yeah. Um, very inspired again by you know my love of fantasy and all that stuff. Um, so that that's kind of where I I knew I wanted to do something fantastical. I knew I wanted to do some something different than dragons because I'd read a lot of dragons in my

Why This Story Had To Exist

Margarita Artista 39:05

my childhood and I was like, okay, I want to do something like this but different. Like same, same but different. Um, and I wanted to do in the real world because it was my first kind of venture into fantasy, and I felt like setting up a whole world and magic system was going to be a huge endeavor. Um, and then I wanted to start start kind of okay, let's take my real world and just put magic in it, because that would sound actually a lot of fun. Actually, I wish that was what the real world was like.

Jordan 39:31

Can that yeah, can that be real? Like absolutely right. Yeah.

Margarita Artista 39:34

Um, and then as I was, as I was writing and as I started writing the book, um, I was going through university, I was studying sociology, I was looking at everything that was happening around me, and I was like, I need to do something about it, and I don't know what else to do other than use what I feel is my skill set, which is my writing. Like I don't know I don't know how to fight this, and I don't know how to express my discontent about what's happening in uh in the world and and how you know I I'm I'm viewing these power struggles and this this oppression and all of the the things that I just I just it's it's bothering me. Something is bothering me and I need I need to comment on this. I need to um express I need to I need to fight it somehow. So that was how the story sort of morphed into this fantastical commentary. Um I love romance, so it's in there, and like all of that stuff. Like I just combined all of the things that I really felt I needed to do in there, and it was it was kind of just like a calling to me that I needed to to to do this. Um whether or not it's it's perceived or whether or not it it's it it hits the mark or whatever, I feel like I've done what I need to do, right? So that's uh that's kind of how the the the process for that came along.

Jordan 40:59

Oh, okay. And then so then I know too you're like still writing it, but so far, what has been the most like rewarding and then m the most challenging of writing the series?

Margarita Artista 41:10

Yeah. Um so uh super spoiler alert for um book two. If you have not read book two, spoiler alert, but um the incorporation of uh Felix's drug use and um what happens of and to him as a result of his drug use and the fight Seraphine has when

Writing Addiction Without Stigma

Margarita Artista 41:33

she discovers the drug use, she's initially very angry about it. Because we're conditioned as a society to view drug use as um like a bad thing. It's illegal, it's criminal, it's all of these things. And the bigger picture is most people who end up in drug use and drug use systems, um, uh various substance use and drug, drug in this sense could mean anything. It could mean drugs, as in like the hard drugs, it could mean alcohol, it could mean like, you know, your drug of choice. Um the reality is a lot of people are turning to these because the system has failed them otherwise. They're struggling to receive mental health help, or they're struggling um with uh external factors and external societal pressures, or they're struggling to be able to access um certain supports, or they're struggling with pain. A lot of um people who turn to certain drugs are struggling with incredibly crippling pain that they don't have any other way of managing because the healthcare system fails them. So reality, there is a lot more to drug use than just somebody has made a choice to use a substance. It's usually actually a a counter, a counter sort of factor to a bunch of other external things that are going on. And if we want to solve, and I use that in quotation, solve the issue of drug use, because really the drug use isn't the problem, we have to look towards where else we're we're we're failing in sort of in our in our system, in our society. Um, and the fact that it's so stigmatized is is one of the big reasons. So that's part of the reason why Felix is not seeking help for his for his substance use, because he's worried about failing. He's worried about the stigma that's going to be associated with that. He's worried about if I don't if I don't succeed in this, I am going to be viewed as the person who failed at getting off drugs. And that just makes me want to do more drugs. So it's a really one of those, one of those, um it there's plenty of examples of this in our in our world, in our society, but it's just one of the ways that we we punish people consistently, even though the system is also punishing them. And um, it's part of my the part of the one of the things that I'm really passionate about. So I was really happy to be able to incorporate in there and to see it so well received. Like his mental health and substance use struggle was so well received. And um I got messages saying like this I thank you for for this, because it's a really hard hard discussion and it's really hard to you know to have a raw discussion about that and so I did I did want to put that representation out there for any form of addiction really it's it's it's hard. So yeah that that was a really rewarding to have that um be well intentioned and received that that made me feel really good.

Jordan 44:22

So would you say that was like a rewarding and challenging part to like include that but then rewarding for like how it was received and how people are responding to it.

Margarita Artista 44:33

Absolutely it was it was challenging it was challenging to incorporate it because I you always are teetering a fine line between especially like Seraphine's initial reaction to the discovery is quite typical to most people's reaction when they find out somebody they love is using substances in a in a manner that's quite unhealthy for them. You know that it's kind of that anger and that what are you doing and I can't believe that blah blah blah but it I think something that we recognize is that that stare stems from care, right? We care about this person and we're really worried and we have all of these ideas of what substance use and drug use is. And when you peel back the layers of of it you realize that it's not actually the the drug use that's the main problem. It's the it's the symptom of the real problem. Yes that was it was challenging to be able to um make sure that I I got that message across and to say everything that I wanted to say to make the story sort of flow. But also at the same time ensure that I wasn't offending like I always I'm mindful I you know sensitivity trigger warnings all of that stuff at the same time I I do um I do I think I think it's important to include and part of the part of the way we learn and we progress as society is learning from stories and then like storytelling is one of the ways that we've learned forever. And so we if we don't talk about these things in our media in our in our art in our um science in everything then we don't we don't progress ever.

Jordan 46:01

So I know you still have two books to write in this series but when those are done do you have like an idea of like where you want

Next Projects And Building New Worlds

Jordan 46:12

to go next like what do you want to write next you a series a standalone like what are your thoughts?

Margarita Artista 46:18

Yes I definitely want to do another romantice I think this time I will create a world that I know for sure and I think um I haven't decided if I want to do like a standalone I don't want to do five books again it was a bit of much uh but like maybe a standalone or a duology or a trilogy um but yeah I definitely have some ideas for um basically it's going to be a step further in the fantasy world with sort of the a a make believe make believe created what what what it what do they call it?

Jordan 46:55

It's a not set in R world it's a fantasy world fantasy world complete fantasy world um but the the sort of the uh I have ideas that I keep jotting down I keep like a running pages or notes page on my um on my phone so anytime I have an idea I just sort of jot it down um but I don't really have a clear vision of the magic systems and what the world's gonna look like and everything yet I just have a a more of a vision of the next story that I want to tell um which is um well maybe I shouldn't say actually maybe yeah we'll we'll we can we'll keep that a surprise for like when when the time comes um but also I had a qu I thought of this like after when you said that was it hard to going back to your Phoenix Keeper series was it hard to write because it's a it's fantasy it's like romanticy but it's like in our world but with magic was that easier or harder to write than something that's like a fantasy world that you created yeah I think it's it's difficult when you're applying magic to our world because it obviously it doesn't exist.

Margarita Artista 48:04

So you have to work with existing systems in in our world that like for um like nature how nature works and I think the biggest the biggest question that usually comes as a reader myself when I'm like okay so there's magic in this world how did everybody else not know about it so I think once you get past that explanation of your okay why does everybody not know about it? Oh because it's only applied to people who are selected by phoenixes. Okay so if you don't have a phoenix and you wouldn't have been known about it and they phoenix keepers keep it a secret. So when you basically in the in the process of writing and establishing those systems magic systems um you're basically answering the qu any question the reader could have. That's that's how I approach it to say, okay, well why is this okay what is it and then you have to sort of answer each question in sort of obviously you don't want to info dump um because that would just be a little bit too much. But um you know at various points throughout the story the questions arise naturally and then you have the and and an opportunity to explain it um either through dialogue or through what occurs or or what have you. And then of course there's exceptions to the system usually which oh why hasn't this happened? Oh because nobody's encountered this yet or or what have you or we don't have documentation or the documentation was lost or something like that. So it it can be challenging because you are working with the confines with of natural human curiosity um which is when somebody is reading something that I have all the answers in my head but I have to keep in mind but my readers can't see inside my head. So I have to make sure it's explained thoroughly.

Jordan 49:47

Yeah because I know too like I'm really bad and my husband always gets annoyed with me because like in my head I know something and so I'll say something to him and he's like what the fuck are you talking about right now? And I'm like I already had part of this conversation in my head with you. So like you should know it.

Margarita Artista 50:04

Yeah yeah exactly yeah and why didn't you why didn't you read my mind though like come on I did this come on I did the same thing to my husband where he's he looks at me he's like what like um please inform me what you had in going on in your head before you said what you said.

Jordan 50:21

Totally okay so before I end this episode I really have really want to ask you these two questions.

Margarita Artista 50:31

So the first one is what is your favorite book a book you would recommend to anyone and everyone obviously I mean we gave a shout out to Hunger Games and Aragon

Favorite Book And Screen Adaptation Dream

Margarita Artista 50:40

at the beginning sort of with the that natural so if you haven't read those you should read those but I think something that I'm really uh a long time ago somebody gave me a book called Then and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance that's what the that's what it's called. It's by an author called Robert M. Persig and the story basically follows um somebody who's trying to define what quality is in the absence of things to compare it to. So when we say like your microphone is of good quality naturally what that means to us is it's better than the other microphones. But if there are no other microphones can something be of good qual can your microphone be of good quality or not if you lack the comparison to it was a really interesting read. It was not a book I would ever pick up like if you I if I saw it in the bookstore or whatever I would have like Zen in the Art of Motorcycle mate what like that's it's such an odd but it was so interesting to read um and I highly recommend that. Okay wait so like how did you find this book like how somebody gave it to me somebody somebody literally said at the time I I didn't get this book I didn't understand but but I know you like to read so do you want to read this? I was like okay and I started reading it and at first I was like what even is it but then as I read I was like by the end of the book I was like that was a really interesting and insightful journey and it's not what I would typically read. Uh I would again I would never would have reached for it in a bookstore but it is a really really interesting book and it has a sequel it's called Lila as well that I I've read and also very interesting. But yeah I yeah highly recommend that it's a very interesting book.

Jordan 52:26

And then the last question I have for you is what is one goal short term or long term that you would like to achieve and it could be in writing publishing books I don't know anything.

Margarita Artista 52:38

It would be really cool it would be really cool to see I had I have this vision sometimes when I write I see scenes as if it were a movie it would be really cool to see it doesn't necessarily have to be Phoenix Keeper but something come to life on the screen I think somehow. I don't know it doesn't have to be like a movie a movie company picks it up or whatever. It could be like even like an independent like maybe a YouTube something animated series whatever. I'm not picky about how it happens but I think it would be really cool to see a story of mine on the screen. And it's also I think one of my favorite things of getting character art done is I'll give artists in a description and then I get something back. And it's always like you know there's very sometimes it is what I have in my mind but there's always artistic like creativity and and you know the way an artist interprets. I love seeing different interpretations for what I describe. I absolutely do. So it's one of my favorite parts of character arts and I tried I try to intentionally be like specific but not too um detail like gritty about what I want when I request because I'm really interested to see how the artist interprets it and I I I I don't think I've ever received a piece of character art that I was like disappointed by. So I think my method is working. So I mean and I respect I totally respect artists because I couldn't that's kind of that's my thing I wish I could draw.

Jordan 54:07

So same can't draw same I can't my the best thing I can draw are stick people. Yeah that's not it absolutely same okay well thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I do want like where where can people find you where can people find your books?

Margarita Artista 54:25

Like give us all those two my Instagram and my TikTok is at margarita.artista um and then I do have a website which is www.margaritaartista.com in terms of books most of my books are available

Where To Find Margarita And Her Books

Margarita Artista 54:40

online at Zala Press. They're on the Zon um and they're also on um indigo and barnesandnoble comm so indigo for Canada uh Barnes and Noble uh in the States um there are a few select indie um bookstores in my province home province of BC here in in uh Canada that carry them as well um but uh for more specifics on that um I probably will be updating my website uh relatively soon to to have those which indie bookstores carry them so thank you so much for coming on the podcast and chatting with me really appreciated this was a great chat I loved it oh my gosh awesome