Interview with Author: Cass Geller

Slutty Little Glasses

A ghost of Christmas past with memory magic, a cinnamon-roll bodyguard, and a door knocker with opinions—Cass Geller brings the holidays to life in a way that’s equal parts tender, funny, and haunting. I sit down with Cass to unpack Mary & Brite, her urban fantasy romance set in present-day London with a secret world of Spirits Incorporated, where grief becomes a character and love learns to speak in the quiet.

Cass opens up about writing at night while working full-time and parenting, how she protects the joy of making by simplifying her launch process, and why she’s unapologetically character-driven. We get into the craft: building slow-burn tension, handling spice without cliché, keeping humor close to heartbreak, and pacing a novella so it still feels rich. She shares the unlikely spark behind the book—Dickens, Muppets, and a single title pun—and explains how Maurice the talking door knocker became the emotional glue she didn’t know she needed.

If you loved the episode, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs a new festive read, and leave a quick review to help others find us.

Follow Cass on IG: @wonderlandandwhisky

Cover Art by: moi

Intro/Outro Music: positive vibes by nanaacom on Capcut

Contact Email: spillthesmutpodcast@gmail.com

Podcast IG: @spillthesmutpodcast TT: @spillthesmutpodcast

Jordan IG: @sipsoffiction TT: @sipsoffiction

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Cass’s New Release
• 4:07 Why She Writes: Imagination And Therapy
• 7:01 Night Writing, Day Job, And Motherhood
• 11:32 Dreams, Sacrifice, And The Creative Brain
• 15:10 Career Goals: Full-Time Author Or Balance
• 17:12 Character-Driven Stories And Humor
• 19:59 Spice: Challenges, Rewards, And Word Choices
• 25:19 Tropes She Wants To Tackle Next
• 27:48 Practical Advice For Aspiring Authors
• 31:48 Sleep, Audiobooks, And Dream Logic
• 36:16 Introducing Mary And Bright
• 39:40 Holidays, Grief, And Mixed Emotions
• 44:32 Novella Craft: Pacing And World Doors
• 48:45 Dickens, Muppets, And Inspiration
• 51:26 Character Surprises And Maurice The Doorknocker
• 55:35 Spiciest Line And Plaid Pajamas
• 58:47 Redefining Success And Reader Connection
• 1:02:56 Quiet Launch Strategy And Burnout
• 1:06:36 Reading Habits: Steamrolling And Memory
• 1:11:25 Reading While Writing And Influences
• 1:17:00 Slow Burn, Spice, And Reader Moods
• 1:22:50 Frosty Erotica And Holiday Curiosities
• 1:28:04 Gateway Books And Why Reading Is Cool

Transcript

Jordan: 0:42

Bookstagrammer turned fantasy author, and thank goodness she made the switch. Because if you haven't read The Golden Key, then what are you even doing with your life? This standalone Goldilocks and the Three Bears dark fantasy retelling is absolutely phenomenal. But she also is still in the Bookstagram space, which again, thank goodness, because her recs are amazing. But that's not the only reason she's joining us today. Not only does she have one incredible book under her belt, but now she has two. She just released Mary and Bright, a cozy, magical holiday fantasy romance novella. So if you're in the need of a festive read, look no further. And I can go on, but I'll stop now. Please welcome to the podcast, Cass Geller. Hi. Hello. It's a mouthful, isn't it?

Cass Geller: 1:30

It it really, I was like talking. Yeah, it's yeah.

Jordan: 1:35

I was like, I forgot to breathe. I forgot to breathe. It's a I think they should kind of think figure out a way to shorten that because I struggle with it when I try and talk about it. So well done. That was good.

Cass Geller: 1:48

Thank you.

Jordan: 1:50

Well done with your intro. Your intro. It's great. It's great.

Cass Geller: 1:57

Okay. But before we dive into the questions, I do want to ask you what has been the highlight of your week so far. Honestly, this.

Jordan: 2:10

Oh yeah. I think the last time I was on my highlight of the week was I got a new couch. And this is surpassed as that. Like really, I think this has been wonderful. I I loved doing it last time. Obviously, you know, we've been bookstagram internet friends for a long time now.

Cass Geller: 2:29

Oh, so long, but I like love it. Yeah. It's it's it's nice to sit here and chat with you. So that's the highlight of my week. Oh my gosh. Thank you. And I'm like so excited to like dive in. Well, because and it's like kind of cool too, because I when we had you on last time, for the listeners that don't know, Cass was on when we uh were 30 talks, me and Fob, and we got to interview you and we kind of talked about the golden key, but also like you being an author. Um, but I had read the golden key and I haven't read Mary and Bright yet. So I actually have no idea what it's about because Oh, okay.

Jordan: 3:10

That also means that I shouldn't spoil it in in case you do want to read it. So now I have to really be on my best behavior.

Cass Geller: 3:17

Oh, and it thank you, because I do really want to read it. There's three books, there's three holiday books that I have to read like before Christmas, and then and yours is one of them, plus good spirits, and then this other one. But I'm like, so but I was I also understand like sometimes I mean I'm still gonna read it even if you do spoil it.

Jordan: 3:38

So I won't, I promise. Okay, now that we talked about that, all right, on to the questions.

Cass Geller: 3:47

Or well, two, also they're broken up into three parts, which is like author, per uh reading and personal. So to start off with author, what inspired you to be an author and to write like fantasy romanticy stories?

Jordan: 4:04

So I think when I started reading at the age of what, four or five, I knew I wanted to create stories because I just had a really active imagination. Um, and it was, yeah, I think I always knew I was always writing stories when I was younger about this and that and everything in between. And then I wrote my first novel. I think I started out when I was about 19. Um, That Will Never See the Light of Day. I've got a few of those, but so writing for me was always something that was just more of a uh a therapy. Um I just have such an active imagination and I just needed to get all this weird stuff out of my head. Um, the great thing about the book world and you know the the book community is that um I actually realized I'm I'm not that weird uh because you kind of you just find find these groups of people that are like, oh, that's a fantastic idea. You should write that. Uh yeah, and that's that's kind of what it's always been. I've always loved reading. I've I've always just been really into creating, um, but with words, I'm I'm not an artist in any way, shape, or form. I am not musically gifted, like I can't dance, I can't sing, I can't play an instrument, like nothing. But with words, I've always just had a bit more of an affinity for them. Um and I'm actually not great at speaking most of the time. I feel like I get jumbled up a lot. Um, but like pen and paper, I feel like it just I can I can express myself a lot better. So that's it's I've just always connected to it.

Cass Geller: 5:32

And yeah, the rest is the rest is history. And here we are today. Here we are today. Uh what is your writing routine like? Do you need to have the perfect setup or do you sit down and write? A bit of a mix.

Jordan: 5:51

Um, I think with both the golden key and uh Mary and Bright, it was a very similar setup, except the golden key, I was I was heavily pregnant. And then with Mary and Bright, I now have a two-year-old. So it was always at night, writing at night, because I I work a day job, I work a full-time job, and then you just have to do the other adult stuff in the evening. Um, and then yeah, so from about anywhere between kind of seven and eight, I'd say, up to midnight every night. Um, with Mary and Bright the last three months I was writing that, I didn't really see Sam except for like in passing or you know, having dinner or those kinds of things. I I just didn't see him because the only time I had free was that time at night, and I just I had to write. Um, I'm not I don't really do like a setup. I wrote the golden key in my bed, my the whole thing in my bed. And then in my yellow chair is where I I wrote Marion Bright, the one that's in all my Instagram posts and things. Because that's what I just yeah, I sit at a desk all day with work. So the idea of then having to sit at a desk to write, I hate. So I always just have to find somewhere really comfortable. Um, and then you know, beverages, um, multiple beverages, that's always part of what I have to have. Then maybe a snack. Uh, it's normally at night, so probably some chocolate. Um, but otherwise, yeah, it's it's generally quiet. I don't put music on or anything. Um, it's just me and Moose, me and the dog. Yeah. I I know your dog's name is Moose, but I don't know why I was literally picturing a giant moose like in your room with you while you write.

Cass Geller: 7:30

I don't know why, because like I know you That would be amazing. It's your like.

Jordan: 7:36

I mean, I know they're they're quite mean though, aren't they? So I don't I don't know how that might not be the best. No, no, I don't I don't think so. Um so yeah, just me and the dog. Moose. Moose.

Cass Geller: 7:50

Oh, I love that.

Jordan: 7:51

I don't know the moose.

Cass Geller: 7:54

Um, but I don't know how you would basically write from like oh, I mean I know to like I'm sure like you wanted to write and you had like these like well the words to put down on paper, but then to like wake up, I'm not sure like what time you wake up to your your full-time job. Like, did you get hours, like full hours of sleep?

Jordan: 8:17

Not a lot, um, especially in the drafting phase. Like editing's a little bit different. I feel like I can do that anywhere at any time. Um, but the initial drafts, no, and Max is a pretty good sleeper, so um, you know, he sleeps till like seven in the morning, eight in the morning. Um, but you know, it's kind of once you are done, if it's midnight, for example, then you kind of get everything closed down and go to bed. You're probably not going to sleep till about one. I mean, I need eight hours of sleep. That's just who I am as a human. So if I get anything less than that, I'm just I'm exhausted. Oh, did you not get much sleep? Oh no, I got seven hours. It wasn't enough. Yeah. But then again, I think it's one of those things where this is something, this was something for me. Obviously, I published it. Same with the golden key. This is something that I needed to do for me and kind of just have that weird, different time in your own head. Um, and it was very therapeutic. So you kind of just have to make sacrifices in places, and if not forever. Um, you know, again, this was a three-month period. The golden key, I had breaks, so I wasn't touching it or looking at it for weeks at times. Um, so yeah, I think it's just it's just adjusting the routine and and having to make sacrifices. And I think if it's important and you love it, then the sacrifices don't seem as harsh.

Cass Geller: 9:41

Yeah. It's like something you like want to do, so you're willing to do whatever it takes to get it done. Which I have a question that's not on this like list. Um so did do you want to make being an author and like writing a full-time job, or do you like, do you want to keep your full-time job and make writing just like a part-time?

Jordan: 10:06

I mean, I think that's always the dream. Um, and maybe one day down the line I could. Um, I'm very fortunate in my day job uh in terms of what it is, how I'm supported by that company. Um, the financial aspects of it are very good and safe as well. Um, and you know, now you have one, I've got a kid and I have to think about that. So I think for the time being, no, but I will continue to publish and um and do how I'm do it, how I'm doing it now. And then yeah, maybe when Max is a little bit older or you know, I've got a little bit more flexibility around things, then I'd I'd I'd push to try more. Um, but it's a lot, and I know what my mental load can and can't take. Uh, and trying to push myself into something that I'm not ready for just doesn't make sense for me right now. But yeah, I mean, obviously that would be fantastic if the thing I love most in life doing, I could make it my job for sure.

Cass Geller: 11:01

One day we're manifesting. One day we are. Like a mood board. Yes. What is your favorite part of writing a story? The tension, the first kiss, the first fight.

Jordan: 11:17

Um I think this answer is twofold because if you've read The Golden Key and then Mary and Bright is very similar, and I think this is something I'm really discovering about my own writing style, but um, there's a lot of depth to the characters. I'm a character-driven writer. Um, you know, so the plot's there, which I think people can find difficult in fantasy because they want the plot and the world building. It's there, I think, but I'm much more focused on the characters. Um, and two things that are are always probably going to be dominant is mental health, health representation, whatever, you know, that can come in different ways, shapes, and forms. Um, and the humor aspect of it. So I think, you know, if that's something you're you're struggling in life with something, I think there's always room for laughter, there's always room for um for banter, there's always room to kind of create that chemistry with people, um, whether that be romantic or non-romantic. Um and those are the things I enjoy the most. Uh definitely the the uh the deep side of it, but also the light side of it. I just find that getting that balance and and and trying to figure out what that looks like for characters, that's just I love it. Um and then Mary Mary and Bright has a fantastic character. Um Maurice, he's a door knocker. Um uh and he he talks. And he's he's the just the my most favorite thing I've ever created. Um, so yeah, and but again, he has heart, he's like he's super emotional, um, but at the same time, like really funny. And yeah, it's just I just like to combine those things.

Cass Geller: 12:56

Oh my gosh, I'm even more excited now. So I this question kind of might go off of the answer you just gave, but what is the most challenging part of writing a romance, and then what is the most rewarding part? So I don't know if that was like kind of like the rewarding part.

Jordan: 13:12

I guess that question in my mind wasn't quite the same answer, but I think it might be this it not the same answer that I just gave, but I think spice for me. Um I think I'm good at the slow burn. The spice for me is the most challenging. Um, but I also think it's the most rewarding. I don't like reading it. Once I know that it's there and it's good, like I don't like to go back to and read it again. Love reading other people's written word, but I give myself the ick. So I think I when I know I have to sit down and write a spicy scene, I hate it. Like I dread it. Um, but for me, I I will always have that, whether it be, you know, it's it's probably lower on the spice scale, but I I know I'll always have that romance element to it. And I think for me, the the sexual parts of that are part of romance. Um, although again, you get platonic romance in my in my stories as well. But yeah, so I always find it the most challenging. Um and that, but also the most rewarding once I've done it. I'm like, done it. Yes, well done, me. That on my back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have a I have a I have a spreadsheet, sure, of words. Like if you're trying to use this word, here's 25 other words you can use for that word. Uh because I get so yeah, no, because I I get I get I get really I feel really awkward with myself. And I'm generally not awkward with myself about anything. I mean, you've seen some of my content, it's just ridiculous. But when it comes to that, like I always feel really weird. I just it's the most bizarre thing, and nobody's seeing it at that point, apart from me, so I don't know why I'm getting awkward.

Cass Geller: 14:57

Just awkward with yourself, like that's awkward with myself, yeah. Well, fair. I mean, not gonna lie, I like can't write, but I've never like tried to write a spicy scene either. So I feel like I'd probably be the same way. It's like me reading writing it, but reading it is like great, like yeah, absolutely.

Jordan: 15:15

But then you know, I get in those moments where I'm like, I I understand why authors have used those words previously, because how the hell are there different words for this thing or how this is do you know what I mean? So I'm like, I'm I'm tempted to you know use I don't know something that is so inappropriate just to just to throw it in there. I'm just picturing you like using a thorough, yes, yeah. Like oh Googling work. I'm gonna say fold. Yeah, no, I have a whole, I found a Tumblr post. It was this massive spreadsheet, and I was like, copy. Um, and I still have it on my yeah, honestly, I have it. I thought folds we weren't supposed to, we as a like a writer too, but I'm not a writer. No, but that's what I'm saying. I get to a point where I'm like, I don't I don't know what else, I don't know what else to say because you don't want to just keep saying the same word over and over again, right? And if you're ha if you're in a scene that you you know those all that stuff's happening, you're like, well, they use this four times in the last three paragraphs, so I need a different word, and there are no other words for that. It's folds, fine, just throw folds in there. But that's what I get to because I get I get so frustrated. I won't use folds, don't worry. Folds is not used, folds was not used, will never be not used in the making of Mary and Bright. Don't worry. Oh, so it was in the golden key? I can't remember. Oh, better not have been. I'm gonna have to go back now because nobody mentioned I feel like somebody would mention that.

Cass Geller: 16:48

Oh, somebody would have mentioned it. Yeah, you're fine. You're fine. Okay. Um, what trope would you love to write in the future? Or for your next book, you know what I mean? Well maybe I don't know if we'd consider this a trope, but I'm not very good at writing a bad boy.

Jordan: 17:17

Like I'm not very I generally my male characters are very sweet. They might have like a uh harder outside and you know could give it that, but like someone that's just an absolute dick, like I would love to just Do you know what I mean? Because we there are quite a few characters where we're like that person is awful and I love him. That's I kind of want to do that. I don't know if I ha I don't know if I I could like I don't know if that would come out. He'd end up just being really sweet and like buying the FMC flowers every day or just doing really cute things. Do you know what I mean? Uh-huh. No, he's like, he's like says like one thing and then he's like, I'm so sorry. Here, here's some flowers.

Cass Geller: 17:58

Yeah, exactly. I'm so sorry, I love you. Yeah, I take it all back. I know, yeah.

Jordan: 18:05

So I I would I would really like to to to write a male character. Not not that mine don't have layers, but just like more of an onion, if you know what I mean. Like there's there's a lot to that, and yeah, more more of a more of a dick than some of the other guys I've I've written. That'd be nice.

Cass Geller: 18:24

I like it. I like it. More villainous, I think. Yeah, it's more villainous. Okay. Oh, yeah, true. I feel like that makes sense too. Cause like, I mean, I I don't know if you ever would want to write like a contemporary, or I feel like you're like in the fantasy, so I guess villainous makes more sense because I uh now I'm just picturing like a motorcycle tattoo bad boy in your like fantasy world. It'd be motorcycle tattooed bad boys in the in the fantasy world, absolutely. It is it is your story, not a bad idea, but urban fantasy, you know. True, true. Yeah, there you go. Um done. Uh okay, so what advice do you would you have to give to an aspiring author? Am I qualified to answer that?

Jordan: 19:15

Um I think one of the questions I get a lot is kind of what's your what's your process? And I think that's a great question because I've asked that question to authors as well. And it's nice to get ideas of things of how you're how you want to because I think a lot of the times it's very daunting to think about sitting down to write. Um but that's my advice. Just sit down and write. Uh, I think your process is gonna come. It will, you know, you're you'll iterate your process in terms of what works and what doesn't for you. Uh I don't plot, I'm absolutely terrible at plotting, but some people write a full outline, you know, and try it. Just just try it. Just sit down, write, try the different things that people have suggested and and find the way that works for you. There's there's just no right or wrong way. Um, but I think it gets scary because I think a lot of the times they think authors really have it together and they're organized and they do everything. No, we're chaos, you know, we're just absolute chaos. Even if you do outline, even if you are more organized, I think it's just there's so much going on in your brain that and you're trying to get it all down, whether it's on your computer or writing or on your friggin' notes app. My notes app is insane. Um, so yeah, just sit down and write, just see what happens and and kind of yeah, find your own process because it's it's not gonna work for everyone at the end of the day. Um

Cass Geller: 20:44

Okay. And I have another question that's not on the list of questions. Thank you. Um, but when like let's say, like, you know how you were saying, like in the middle of the night, in my dreams. Sorry, I had to. Um, it's like force of habit now. Um but and like you because you know how you like wrap it up around like midnight, but what if you just have so much to keep going? Like, do you continue writing in the night or do you stop and you're like, no, no, no, I gotta, I gotta go to sleep.

Jordan: 21:18

No, I just keep going. I keep going until it, but it has to make sense, right? I mean, because sometimes this even if you keep going, it's like some of it's absolute shite, like, what the hell? Um, but a lot of the times when I'm deep in a project, I dream about it a lot. I like it is connected to my dreams a lot. And I'll wake up with like a oh, that's a that's a that's a plot fix that I've been trying to get for ages. Um, and normally I I learned this the hard way. I used to go, that's fine, I'll remember that in the morning. It's so good, I'll remember that in the morning. Like there's no way I can for I absolutely forgot it when I woke up. I had no idea what I was talking about. So I have my phone next to my head when I'm like writing a lot. Um, so I can turn over and open my notes app and just jot it down in my notes app. So my brain doesn't stop when I'm in like especially first draft. Like it just it doesn't stop. So I have to have something. I normally have a notebook near me. And when I'm in bed, it's my phone. Um even when I'm even when I'm working, like I'll pull up a new email and I'll just jot it down in the email so that I can send it to myself later.

Cass Geller: 22:27

So then that way you can like anytime you think of something, it like goes like you write it down so you have it. Smart. Because I feel like not again, I don't my uh random, random note of drawers. Um, when I take naps, I don't like taking naps during the day because I just get really bad anxiety. But when I do, like you know how you were just saying you like dream of like what you're writing, I dream that I'm reading, and then I wake up being like, what the fuck?

Jordan: 22:53

Wait, like what what did I miss reading?

Cass Geller: 22:55

Like that's my dream. On the one hand, I'm like, that's lovely, but on the other hand, I would be so upset because I wasn't actually reading. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do, because I am the same way, and I think I like miss something because it's like I know I was like actively looking at words on a page, but like nothing was computing, because I wasn't reading, because I was dreaming like so.

Jordan: 23:22

That's my dream.

Cass Geller: 23:23

I wish I could have you ever gone to sleep listening to an audiobook though.

Jordan: 23:27

Oh yeah, that one's fun for me personally. Then are you like getting it of I didn't use to set a timer, so if I can listen to audiobooks when I'm kind of just laying there or whatever, you because you can set a timer on your audiobook, so it will stop. It'll sometimes it'll be chap like chapters ahead before I'd woken up and realized that my audiobook was still on, but then I'd have then I'd have to go back and reread it and I'd be like this kind of sounds a little bit familiar, but I don't know. Did I read this? Did I actually read it or was I asleep? Yeah. Oh our brains are fun. Brains are fun.

Cass Geller: 24:04

Um oh wait, sorry, another literally this happened last night. So I was in this dream, and it was like something to do with like I was like listening to somebody talk on the television, like in my dream, and I'm like, there's this loud noise going on, and I like can't figure out like what was going on, and I was like trying to turn up the TV, like so I could hear this person and I was missing everything they were saying from this like loud noise. I was trying to turn off everything in like my dream. And then I think I realized like when I woke up that I was in like that half sleep, half awake, and it was actually like my husband snoring that like punctured my dream.

Jordan: 24:45

And I was like, what is going on? So of course I told him this this morning, and he's like, but I like like was saying this, and I was like, Yeah, I think it was your snoring, and he's like, I'm so sorry. And I was like, you should be, because I missed what we're saying on the television. So that's also my dream. Interesting though, because obviously you're in dream form, but then whatever's happening outside is uh having an impact on your dream, and you can't listen to whatever they're saying on the TV.

Cass Geller: 25:18

Right. But I also but it's like I don't think I I think I only realized it like once I woke up.

Jordan: 25:25

But I you know, I don't well because in your dream it's just like, what is that loud noise and where is it coming from? Because you don't have the same obviously cognitive ability, right? In your dream. Knowing that Dream Dor was clearly like, I don't know what the hell this is, but it needs to shut up because I'm trying to watch my program. Like actually, and then I woke up and I totally missed whatever was going on on the TV. Back to the questions.

Cass Geller: 25:55

Yes, okay. So you just released your holiday book, Mary and Bright. Can you tell the listeners a little bit more about the book?

Jordan: 26:02

So uh it is it's a short, it's a short one. So I uh see the idea popped in my head last Christmas um because I really wanted to read some fantasy romance Christmas books, which there's not a lot. No, so it was really difficult for me to find them. Um and I I knew I wanted to write a Christmas book, and I was like, oh, well, this is just kind of right up my alley, so why not? Um, and I've always loved a Christmas carol. So Mary and Bright is inspired by a Christmas carol, um, and definitely has some little uh uh kind of odes to that throughout the book. But it is about Mary Remington and um Miles Bright. Right, Mary and Bright. Uh basically what happens is um Mary is a ghost of Christmas past, so she uh has has memory magic. Um she is grieving uh the death of her best friend um and uh somebody is trying to kill her uh on a live her. I'm not sure what we're allowed to say on these things. Um so Miles Bright is hired as her bodyguard. Um and it kind of takes them on a little bit of a journey of grief and really how you go through through that. Um so loss, just kind of finding yourself again, um, but also a bit of a murder mystery. Um so they are a little bit of a kind of a who-done it type of thing. Um and and yeah, that that's pretty much it. Obviously, there's some some things around a Christmas Carol that are in that um from the original Charles Dickens A Christmas Carol version. Uh, there's also some uh Muppet's Christmas Carol references in there as well. Uh and yeah, and then you've got Maurice who is a talking door knocker and Mary's roommate. Um, so you've got a little bit of this interesting dynamic between Mary, the bodyguard, the talking door knocker. Uh, and and yeah, that's kind of it. It's not uh, I wouldn't say it's a super sweet holiday book. Um I think you get a mix of things because I think no matter how you look at the holidays, Christmas particularly, whether you love it, hate it, any any of those feelings that you have, I think no matter where you stand on it, there's there's always good parts and there's always really difficult parts. I love Christmas, but I also find it really difficult because I don't live near my family. You know, so there's a lot of things that I remember being joyful when I was young that I don't have now. Um, so I think it's just a bit of a mix of those feelings that you can go through uh around the Christmas time and and why it's okay to have them all. Um, it doesn't just have to be a wonderful, joyous time. Um, it can be sad, it can be it can be reflective, it can be funny, um, it can be kind of everything in between. So yeah, and I had the best time writing it. Like it was just so much fun. As hard as it is on some of the the grief stuff, um, because that that can be heavy, it was just I had I just had so much fun. I just had so much fun writing it.

Cass Geller: 29:04

Oh my gosh, I'm even more excited to read it now because I feel like too, when I first saw you mention Mary and Bright, and before I knew it was like kind of a fantasy, and I knew there was grief too. I saw that in like the like little snippet I did when writing your intro. Um, but I I kind of I thought it was gonna be this like contemporary, like like cute Christmas story because I feel like that's honestly all I ever see are these like cute, fluffy, light uh Christmas stories, which again, nothing wrong with those, but I think it's kind of cool that you're taking it to like a whole new level with your story, and it's not necessarily going to be light, fluffy, and I think that's like really cool because you're you're right in the sense like I think everybody can relate to um Christmas can be like a very joyful time, but it also cannot, because like I know there's like people have like I know I've lost loved ones, and then I know other people have lost loved ones, and we're going into like a what's supposed to be a super like family-oriented, and I you like are doing it without someone, so it's like there are those weird, like it's like multi-layered, multi-faceted of like I am happy, but I'm also like sad, and it it's definitely not the same as like when you were a kid and and you're like Santa's coming and he's bringing all these gifts, and it's just it it's definitely like a different time now. So I think it's kind of cool that you're bringing in this story that is all-encompassing of what Christmas can be for some people, and some people might have never experienced that, so and I'm very jealous if that's you, like, but it's not everybody, that's for sure.

Jordan: 30:56

Yeah, it's um, yeah, I think you know, it's shoved down your throat that it's all about family and it's all about friends and loved ones and just having the best time. And I mean it is, but I think it's just so much more than that. It doesn't have to be 24-7, right? I think, especially in the States, that kind of day after Thanksgiving through to Christmas, that's your it's your joyful Christmas period, right? And it's a really difficult time for a lot of people, even people that love and celebrate Christmas, pretty, you know, high profile. So I think, yeah, I think for me it just made sense to um I I knew a couple of things that were gonna happen or I wanted to happen in the book, and then it kind of evolved into this. And I think I probably thought it was gonna be a lot sweeter than it was. Um, don't get me wrong, it it has its fluff and um there's some really lovely moments in it, you know. But again, I think it's just about navigating through the fact that uh particularly with loss and grief, um, you know, there's there's no kind of right or wrong way about when you're supposed to move to the next stage or um really be able to understand how to handle those situations. It's just kind of literally taking it sometimes one second at a time. Um, and that's kind of what this encompassed. But yeah, I also wanted to make it fun. So you get a romance, you get Maurice the Talking Door Knocker, uh, you get this murder mystery aspect as well. So there's a little bit of that kind of vengeance, revenge kind of aspect of it. Um, and it's urban fantasy. So um, you know, it's London present day, it's but then you've got this kind of parallel world um where she works for Spirits Incorporated, um, which is centered around the ghosts of Christmas and the spirits that visit damned souls on Christmas Eve. So, you know, you get you get some of that aspect of it as well. So it's yeah, I think it's a little bit of a mix. It's hard writing a 200-page novella and trying to fit everything into it, but I was I wanted to ask, I was literally just thinking, so I'm glad you mentioned that.

Cass Geller: 32:56

How was it going from writing the golden key, which is like authentic book, to writing a novella?

Jordan: 33:05

I think I loved it personally. I think it's also gonna be difficult because it with some I think, but again, you know, I wrote it for me. I wrote it the way that I felt the story needed to be told. People are gonna think it's too short, people are gonna think that I don't know, it's too long. You know, everyone's gonna have their own opinion. For me, it's more it was more about kind of, and maybe I'm spoiling things for the future, but kind of opening the door to a world. And the the start of that was with Mary Ambrite. So I mean, I loved it. It was hard because you want to pace, you're trying to get that pace right and make sure that it makes sense. Um, it's not super spicy. You get a couple of spice scenes, you know, and it's a slow burn. So in 200 pages, how do you do that? You know, so it's one of those things where you're just it again, I think just trying to trying to make sure that it it felt right. And it to me, it's paced right. Again, there's definitely areas you can go in deeper, but did it make sense for me to do that for this story? Probably not. So yeah, there's a there's a whole world behind this. It's just this is what I decided to show with with these guys.

Cass Geller: 34:13

I like it. I like it. Um, so then okay, then it kind of leads me into like the next question, which is how did the idea, like the inspiration for Mary and Bright, come to you?

Jordan: 34:25

So the name actually pops into my head first. Um, I don't know, I was like, oh, Mary and Bright. I think I was talking about like different kind of Christmas sayings and things, and I was like, oh, Mary and Bright. I was like, oh, that would be that would be cute, like as names. And then I was like, oh my god, that's gonna be the name of the book. And I think then it really happened fast after that. Um, because I've always loved a Christmas carol. Like 1992, Mapa's Christmas Carol came out. That was always also the first year that I saw a Christmas carol uh as a stage show. Um, so my great uncle at the time, this is very nutcrackerish-ish. Um, my great uncle at the time, he decided instead of giving us all gifts, he was going to give us experiences that Christmas. So we went to a play, we went to like a light show, we went to a concert. So we went to we did all these different Christmas things. And the one that stuck out for me was a Christmas carol on the stage. I think I was six, six years old. And I remember this play so like so vividly. And a Muppets Christmas Carol came out, and I was like, why am I being flooded with Charles Dickens, like left, right, and center this Christmas? And then I just fell in love with it. I was just always in love with the story. Um, I've been to all the fictional places in London that Charles Dickens got the um inspiration for a Christmas Carol for, like, honestly, I do it every year. Um, and I've just always loved it. And I always find it really interesting because I'm like, he wrote this ghost story back in the Victorian times and it as a as a Christmas book, and it just became this massive thing. So I was like, oh, can I do that? Can I make some kind of not necessarily genres, but bring something a little bit more weird and fantastical into the Christmas period? And that's kind of it, and then that that was kind of it. I thought, yeah, it's I'll I'll take some of the inspiration from old Dickens and uh create my own world, and here we are. And again, here we are today.

Cass Geller: 36:17

Here we are today. Um did your two main characters, like Mary and Bright, ever surprise you when you were writing their story? Like, did they ever take you in a direction that you didn't, especially since you said you're a plant pant pant wow pantster?

Jordan: 36:34

Yeah, I think Mary did more so. Um, I think Miles is a he's just he's a cinnamon role, but you know, I think maybe some of the some of the icing on him can be a little bit burnt. So he's got those kind of hard edges, but he's just he's just lovely. But yeah, with Mary, I think because I hadn't really thought about how her grief, how that was gonna roller coaster, how that was gonna kind of ebb and flow, what that was gonna really look like. Grief kind of takes on its own character. So, you know, that's that's also something in the in the book where grief is really another character in that book. And I didn't really understand how that was gonna work for her, how she was gonna work through that. So that was really interesting to kind of just go on that journey with her. Um and what kind of how things again, you're never you're never fully healed from from loss, right? Whether that be life, um, whether that be a relationship, whether that be a house. I don't know. Loss is just one of those things that has so many elements to it. So yeah, I think that was interesting for me. I think it was also, I'm always it, I'm always surprised by my side characters and what they come to mean. Not necessarily to the plot or the book, but to me. Um Maurice was definitely one of those as well because I knew when I decided it was gonna be a Christmas carol inspired, because there's that there's a very specific scene in a Christmas carol where Scrooge walks up to his door and his door knocker turns into the face of Marley. And so that was always something that I knew. I was like, I'm gonna have a talking door knocker. Like that was it. I just I had no idea what it was gonna symbolize, what how it was gonna look, what what was gonna happen, and that's really where Maurice came from. And he ended up being just I just so much fun. I had just so much fun with a friggin' door knocker.

Cass Geller: 38:25

But yeah, lots of surprises, but those two specifically. I love it. I'm I'm so excited for this like talking door knocker. Um, okay, so I feel bad now that I asked you this question, but I can't wait for your answer.

Jordan: 38:41

Um what is the spiciest line in Mary Erbright? Oh no, like I didn't I didn't know I'm not gonna know this.

Cass Geller: 38:52

You know I would have to go and look. I know let me see. I'm gonna I'm gonna see. Okay. I also feel like you could just pick you could pick like a random line too. I won't make you read back like one of your spicy lines. I don't even know. Okay. There's things highlighted. Hold on. I'm holding.

Jordan: 39:17

Oh okay, this isn't spicy. I like it. All right. He was topless, wearing only navy plaid pajama pants and glasses? It's the only it's the only mention of slotty little glasses in the book, and I just one of my favorite things because I just planted it in there and was like, yeah, Miles has the he has slutty little glasses, and it's only mentioned once.

Cass Geller: 39:44

I love it. We love a man with glasses. Yeah. I like it. I like it. Um it's not spicy. No, but it like works. He has no shirt on. Buddy. He has no shirt on. Navy navy plaid pajamas. I thought I was waiting for the gray sweatpants because everybody talks about the gray sweatpants.

Jordan: 40:05

I mean we love we love don't get me wrong. I have nothing against gray sweatpants, but I was like, do you know what? I'm gonna change it up. And it's Christmas. We're gonna do some plaid.

Cass Geller: 40:14

But navy plaid. I meant navy plaid, because you know I have to surprise people.

Jordan: 40:21

Yeah, gotta keep them on their toes.

Cass Geller: 40:26

Okay. How has the definition of success as an author changed since you writing, publishing the golden key, and then writing, publishing Mary and Bright? And has it changed?

Jordan: 40:38

Oh, that's a good question. I don't actually think it. Changed. I think I've changed. Um, I think I know my process better. I I know things that I like and don't like. Um I think things like marketing. I hate marketing, um, but I I think it's also changed with that. Like I didn't I didn't feel like I needed to share everything with this. Um I think for me right now, success is the same. Is if people are reading and enjoying the book, um, if they're reading and connecting to the characters, because again, I'm I'm a very character-driven writer, um, I think for me that's amazing. I mean, I screenshot every DM I get, every single DM I get, and I put it in a folder. And, you know, I think it's one of those things where when someone like takes the time to message me about I they loved the book or you know, specific things or anything, I always I'm really bad at taking compliments or anything like that. So, you know, I always do my best to try and send like a heartfelt response, but I always like look at it and think, that's just it sounds so shit. It doesn't really sound genuine, but I'm genuinely every time I get one of those messages, like I have to sit with it because I can't understand why I would get it. So I think that piece that hasn't that hasn't changed. And I think for me, that's what success looks like now. If people are reading it, if they're recommending it, if they're writing a review for it, whether they didn't like it or liked it, it doesn't matter. If they're taking the time to send me those messages, if they're posting content, I think for me that's I, you know, those things make me feel on top of the world. So that's that's that's what it looks like now. And will that change in the future? I hope not. Because I like those things. Do you know what I mean? I don't want it, I don't ever want, I don't want to ever lose that. Um because it just makes me feel a bit closer to the read. And I know there's a lot of authors that can't be that close to their readers, and you know, for for different reasons, but yeah, I I love that aspect of it.

Cass Geller: 42:50

I I I like that answer. Thank you. You're welcome. Um, but I did want to ask though, which made me think of because I feel like for the golden key, I feel like you were pretty vocal about how like you were writing it, you were into writing it, like here's the edits, then you did arcs and stuff. But I feel like Mary and Bright, you kind of were like, here I have this story for you guys. Like what why did you is there a reason why you released it that way? No arcs, or what did just your thought process for the release of Mary and Bright?

Jordan: 43:26

Yeah. I did Mary and I did the golden key for me as well. Don't get me wrong, but it was my first time publishing. I was finding my feet, I was finding how I wanted to do that, whether that be talking about it before, you know, doing all those kind of steps with the cover reveal and all that. And I got to Marion Bright, and I was writing that, and Momo did the cover for me. And I was just like, oh, do I have to plan out a cover release and all this? I was like, oh, do you know what? No, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna post it. And that kind of just because I was enjoying myself so much writing it, I didn't want to bring in all this negative stuff with having to plan things out, and you know, not that it not that the purpose of it isn't negative, but the administrative part of it, it just it's a lot of work. And I didn't want to have to put myself through that because I just wanted to savor that. And Mary and Bright for was A, get you know, me wanting to write the story, but B really just helping me get back into being in my own head that way again and um just finding that love of writing, and and that's that's what I wanted it to be. So I didn't want to make a big deal out of it. Yes, I'd love people to read it, and you know that that's obviously the the purpose of me publishing it, but yeah, I did it for me, and I just kind of told myself is once I once I posted the cover reveal, I was like, well, I guess we're just gonna do this an ass backwards way. Let's do it. Um, and that's just kind of how it unfolded. And I was like, Yeah, no, I'm good. I don't, I you know, I wasn't gonna do a pre-order. I ended up doing that just just because, but uh I wasn't gonna do a hardcover. And then Mama was like, here's the hardcover um cover. And I was like, yeah, right. Like I I just wanted to be a little bit more fluid and and and not so pressured to do loads of other stuff. And it honestly, I think it helps because I don't feel the burnout now that I did. I mean, the golden key was a much bigger beast, but I don't feel the burnout the way I did then.

Cass Geller: 45:18

Oh, okay. That makes sense. And it almost to keep it like a more of like a happy experience for you than having to. I get that. I get that. Um, okay, so this is the last question in read authoring, then we're on to reading. So it's not the last question. But okay, so if Mary and we can we tell the listeners that there was a finger shaking there, because that was fantastic. There was I know I feel like I need to do video at some point just for my like hand movements, but I also like I gotta figure that out, anyways. So if Mary and Bright was made into a movie or a TV show, who would you cast for Mary and Bright?

Jordan: 46:04

Um, oh do you know what I read that question and I thought I have no idea, and I'll tell you why. I because I just see them in my head and I never relate them to real people. So I can't, I couldn't tell you who who would be good for either of them because I just I know what they look like in my head. So um that's why I never put like people in if I if I do content with um aesthetics, I never put faces or anything because I I like I'll find photos and and and stuff and I'll be like they don't look like the characters, I'm not putting them on there. Um because they're so real in my in my head that I can't no one compares.

Cass Geller: 46:55

Nobody compares.

Jordan: 46:56

Now who would do the voice of Maurice? I I think that would be an interesting question. I'd have to think about it, but yeah, it would have to be someone like a like an old English actor, maybe someone that's done like Shakespeare. Um because yeah, I don't know, because Maurice is a little bit he's a little bit of a diva, but he's also from the Victorian era, so I feel like he he would speak the Queen's English, that kind of thing. But oh yeah the layers.

Cass Geller: 47:31

Why didn't I ask her? Why didn't I ask that question?

Jordan: 47:38

Yeah oh I'm gonna have to I'll I'm gonna come back on those ones because now I'm determined. I'm gonna have to do I'm gonna have to do some searching. Okay.

Cass Geller: 47:47

All right, I like it, I like it. Okay, well, if you think of it before we finish the questions, just like spit it out at any random time. I'm here for that.

Jordan: 47:57

I'm gonna need visuals, so I'm gonna have to go away and do some research. I'm gonna have to go away. I'll come back later.

Cass Geller: 48:05

BRB. Okay, fair. Um so the the the reading portion now. Um, what kind of reader are you? Are you slow in savoring or are you read the whole book in one sitting?

Jordan: 48:18

I'm I oh I'm a steamroller. Like I just I devour things, but my memory shit. So I won't remember. I mean, we were talking about before this Quicksilver, right? I had such a good time. I remember having such a good time. I remember 0.5% of that book, and that 0.5% is the name of one character. I don't even remember no why I like him. I know I was gonna say something when you like brought him up, but then I was like, oh, but like let's let her figure it out again for the first time. Yeah, so I which is really bad, right? Because I think on the one hand, I'm like, oh, I'd love to savor it. I'd I'd love to annotate, like I'd love to do stuff. I have no when I'm in it, like I'm in a story, I'm in a story. Yeah, and I can't and maybe it's because I also don't have a lot of time these days, so I'm not trying to rush through things, but if I have if I if I'm if I'm connected, then I'm like you can't put it down.

Cass Geller: 49:19

Like I feel like there's two different me's of like, okay, I can't put a book down, and then there's like the ones that like I want to savor it, but like I couldn't tell you because they both could be like a five-star read.

Jordan: 49:31

Yeah, but I can't, you know, when people are like, Oh, I really want to savor it. I'm like, me too, but I'm so invested in this that I'm not stopping. I read Alchemized in two and a half days, working full time and with the kids. I blew through that book. Yeah.

Cass Geller: 49:49

I'm like, I really want to read it, but like so many people have said it's so dark, and I'm like, oh, I don't know if I'm ready for that. You don't think it's darker than anything you've read?

Jordan: 49:59

Oh. Okay, fair. Well, you know, people are saying it's a dystopian world, it's it it's it's not pleasant, but I don't think it's I was I was I was expecting something a lot darker. And I'm reading Empire the Vampire right now. Well, I'm rereading I'm reading the third book of the Empire of the Vampire trilogy. I don't think that's I think that's just as dark, if not darker than Alchemized.

Cass Geller: 50:25

So wait, is this the same one that that uh uh what was the first one called?

Jordan: 50:32

The Empire of the Vampire and Empire of the Damned.

Cass Geller: 50:37

Oh the Empire of the No the first no Alchemized, no no no Empire of the Damned, damn, no Vampire was Empire of the Vampire, the second one was Empire of the Damned, and now the third one that just released is Empire of the Dawn.

Jordan: 50:52

That's the one I'm reading.

Cass Geller: 50:54

Oh well, I think I tried to read the first one, but I like couldn't get into it.

Jordan: 51:00

It um the first one is like I think I look at it now, I'm like, oh my god, that was that was just so slow compared to the other two.

Cass Geller: 51:11

Okay.

Jordan: 51:12

I think again, it's it's it's high fantasy, right? So it's there's a lot of world building and it's a big ass book. Um it's fantastic though. It like the the heart heart-wrenching moments reminds me of like the good side of Throne of Glass, you know, like in yeah, Kingdom of Ash and stuff. Like when you have those, oh my god, I can't believe yeah, because you get so invested in the characters. But anyways. So yeah, I'll just I'll steamroll through loads of stuff and then not remember it and then have to reread things.

Cass Geller: 51:46

So it's like you get to experience- you know how people are like, I would love, I would sell my soul to read this book again for the first time. You get to do that.

Jordan: 51:54

I can! Because the other one was um the Hercules one, Bongs Bongs of Hercules just came out. It was it no, that's the second one. What's the first one? Blood. Blood. Remember loving that as well? Can't remember a freaking thing, or not a thing. So now I'm gonna have to reread that as well.

Cass Geller: 52:13

Fair. I remembered more than I thought I would of that one. Okay. It's like it's like the books I really would love to read again for the first time. I remember s the important parts that I would want to forget to reread it again for the first time. But like, like that's the same with Quicksilver. Like, I feel like I forgot a lot of it, but there's the important parts that I those are in there.

Jordan: 52:38

Yeah, no, I'm completely blank on that. I'm wondering if when I read that um chapter by chapter. I wonder if it well, I'll start flattening back to be like, oh yeah, I remember that.

Cass Geller: 52:50

I'm really hoping that. I think it will, because that also happened to me. Okay. So I think it will. Um, okay. So then do you read while you're writing, or do you need to save reading for when you're done with like whatever current book you're writing?

Jordan: 53:08

So with the golden key, I struggled to read fantasy or fantasy romance when I was writing. Um, so I like exclusively for like a year, it was just dark romance, mafia romance. I think there's some contemporary in there. There was Regency romance. Like I read no fantasy. And then I feel like once I published the golden key, I just blooded myself on loads of fantasy romance and I just read loads of it, um, which was fun. But this time around, no, I read through the whole, I read the whole time I was writing Marion Bright. Like, I didn't feel like it hindered my brain face. I think if anything, it just kind of kept kept me in the fictional world.

Cass Geller: 53:50

Kept you going, kept you chugging along. Are you going on vacation this year? I've been, thanks. I've been to all different kinds of places. Aren't you jealous?

Jordan: 54:00

Oh, but yeah, no, so that was good because yeah, I I think I I appreciated it more being able to kind of have a break and read. Even though I enjoyed writing Mary and Bright, it was nice to keep it to keep reading and not have to shut myself out from that.

Cass Geller: 54:17

That that is nice because I feel like a lot of people like or a lot of authors that I've like asked that question to, they're like, no, I have to wait until I'm done. So it's kind of cool that you could.

Jordan: 54:27

You're like, fuck. That just I'm I I just love reading. Like I just I love reading, and I I feel like I feel like it also kind of betters you as a writer. Um, it can also be frustrating if you read something and you're like, damn, I thought of that. I thought of that. I was gonna put that that in this thing, and they've already written about it, but that's gonna happen anyway. So BK Borison's good spirits is that's a uh a Christmas Carol inspired as well. Oh, really? Um Yeah, it's about the ghost Christmas past. I didn't know that. I don't look one of the ghosts, one of the one of the spirits. It's about one of them. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. But it will be completely different than my book. So I like that. It's just different, right? Because you don't get a lot of those kinds of books at Christmas, so I like that those kinds of things are coming out.

Cass Geller: 55:21

I like it too. You're gonna read it, right? Good spirit. Yours? Oh yeah. No, good spirit. Well, I want to read yours too. I wasn't sure if you were we've established that. Wait, did we establish that on the podcast or was that before? Shit, I don't know. Well, I'm gonna read Good Spirit and Mary and Bright. And if you already heard that, I'm gonna be listening back and I'm gonna be like, fuck, I already said it. Seven times. What's one more? Oh god. Okay, are there any romance authors who or like romanticy authors that influenced your writing at all? Probably.

Jordan: 56:10

Um, I wouldn't necessarily say it's I'm conscious of it though. I've read a lot, right? For I'm 40 years old for decades. Um, and I've been reading fantasy for decades and fantasy romance for probably a decade, like more on the romance side. So yeah, I'm sure there are. Um, but then again, I think I think that also makes you a better writer, not from a kind of plagiarism perspective and you're copying ideas and stuff, but just really having a broader approach to what you read and who you read and and how they build stories together. And um yeah, I think it just puts a bit more in your tool belt. But yeah, I couldn't specifically say if there's anyone I'm looking at my bookshelves now.

Cass Geller: 57:00

No, I mean they've probably all hired me and influenced me without me knowing it. Fair. I mean, they all like you reading and their books got you to write your book, even though I know you said you've always had stories to write.

Jordan: 57:21

I tell you what, I do remember the authors I remember the most are the ones that write um have a lot of wit in their books. So banter, having that kind of back and forth with characters. I always remember those ones the best. Like Allie Hazelwood, for example. I've only read Bride and Mate, and then her little Halloween book that she did. Like I haven't read any of her contemporary stuff, but I like the the back and forth, the absolute quick wit of her characters. I just I I love it, I think it's it's incredible. Um, and I'm not I'm I'm not actually a very witty person. My husband is so quick, like Sam comes out with the quickest stuff sometimes. I'm like, how did your brain do that? Like you'll say something to me, and then 20 minutes later I'll come back and try and say something to you, and they're like, What?

Cass Geller: 58:14

Damn it. Why can't you? I'm the same way, and Nick is the same way. He's like so witty. He like, I I like I'm like, how how? How?

Jordan: 58:25

And I'm like, I need all of the information, I need quiet time to process what you've said. Then I'm gonna come back and I'm I'm gonna say something, it's gonna be really funny. Or or or I think it's really funny, but it's actually not, and yeah, oh, and then you say it out loud anyways, and you're yeah, it just goes downhill, yeah.

Cass Geller: 58:43

Yeah, that's me too. Yeah, yeah, it's fine, it's fine. One day we will not be there, but that's okay. Um, what is or is there a book that you think every romance reader should read at least once in their life? I need to put cricket sounds here. You do I think there's probably a few.

Jordan: 59:16

I think it depends on because there's so many different levels of romance, right? Um, like I love a slow burn. Like I I will read a seven book series where the couple doesn't get together until the fourth book. Like I yearn for me. Do you know what I mean? Like I love it. Um so I definitely think that's interesting. Um, and then yeah, I'm I'm not generally one for love triangles.

Cass Geller: 59:47

Oh, I love a love triangle. Do you? Yeah. I also don't love second chance, but Mary and Bright's a second chance. So I love that you did that. You don't love it, but you put it.

Jordan: 1:00:02

I don't think I well, I must have meant to because I wrote it, right?

Cass Geller: 1:00:06

Um well, but you said you were a panther, so maybe it's just like, you know what? Fuck this, it's gonna be second chance. Yeah. Um oh, I think the ones that I'd say that they need to read, people would be like, Oh, why would you say that?

Jordan: 1:00:23

Um I think at I think Addie Invisible Life of Addie LaRue is a really interesting romance because it's not it is, but it's not, right? So I think that's a really interesting book.

Cass Geller: 1:00:39

Um Why are you not giving me inspiration, people? All of you books. Talk to me. Tell me something.

Jordan: 1:00:53

Oh, I mean, you just read these books, uh, The Shepherd King Duology.

Cass Geller: 1:00:57

Oh my gosh, so good. It did take me a minute to get into it though.

Jordan: 1:01:02

Yeah. It's it's quite complex, I think, in terms of the world and actually what's happening, but then once it goes, it goes. Um, but I also find that I don't necessarily know if I'm talking about the romance between the two main characters, or because for me I fell in love with Elm and that side story.

Cass Geller: 1:01:22

But then you kind of get his yeah, but then you kind of get it in like the you get you do get his, yeah.

Jordan: 1:01:28

But it's not like the main um, but yeah, that's like that's a good one for me. Um and I loved it because I yeah, most of the romance books I would recommend are probably not high spice.

Cass Geller: 1:01:41

But I feel like high spice. I know, I agree. Like some I like I love a good like just like a I like it. I mean everybody that like anybody that wants to read a Rodic cup, like please you do you like that is great. Like you you know, like you know what you want and you're ready for it and you're here for it. But like I feel like I love the I rather like the slow bird and like one spicy scene is all I need to like move the character growth along.

Jordan: 1:02:12

Like that's you could be in moods, right? Some you'd be like, oh you know what? Actually, I don't need a bunch of plot right now. Maybe I just I want the goods, or you know, I I'm I don't really need the goods for a while, so let's let's get let's get to know each other a little bit, you know what I mean? No, but like it's about we'll have some dinner and some drinks and maybe we'll go see a movie and then we'll see how things play out.

Cass Geller: 1:02:38

Yeah, that's my kind of relationship with romance, yeah. I honestly kind of same because like sometimes I like won't pick up a romance for a while because I'm like burnt out, so it's like thrillers and yeah, I'll tend to just go with fantasy that just not oh no, like with the romance subplot, but like no spice. Because I feel like a lot of fantasy there's like some level, some subplot of romance, I feel like. But also I haven't really read that many like high fantasy.

Jordan: 1:03:13

Yeah, I read a lot of romance, but then again, I would say I think for me it's the the levels, and most of the time my levels probably pretty low, to be honest. How many times can you say or what other words are there for folds? How many words are there for folds? How many of those do you want to actually read? Do you know what I mean?

Cass Geller: 1:03:32

I feel like that's why there's like have you noticed like sometimes like there's so many, like there's more point of view. Oh wait, but then that me no, I don't there's like if you can't tell, recording this one kind of late myself. Um but they're like the Smexy times are like from the boys' point of view. Boy's man, men, boy, male.

Jordan: 1:04:01

Yeah, and that works sometimes, but I don't know, just unless the care like again, so I think the and the reason that I like the slow burn is because I get to know the characters, so I feel like those scenes pay off better for me personally because we're getting to that, you know, we've gone through the yearning, we've gone through all of that. Like if it if you go into a book and like 20 pages in, they're they're on it, they're you know, they're doing they're getting busy. I'm like, I don't know you guys.

Cass Geller: 1:04:32

I'm not ready, we haven't really met. I think we need to slow this down a little bit. We're not not ready. Okay. No, it's true though, because like I've definitely DNF stories where it happens in the first chapter, and I'm like, geez guys, I'm not here for the one night.

Jordan: 1:04:52

Unless unless I'm reading a book about a woman that gets a magical dildo for Christmas, where it turns into an elf, a fee elf, to pleasure her all night. It's like 60 pages long. I know what I'm getting into with that.

Cass Geller: 1:05:12

I feel I feel like this was like exp oh I read it last year.

Jordan: 1:05:16

It's called Elf. Solid name. When I was looking for fantasy romance Christmas books, that one was recommended to me, and I was like, Do you know what it's 60 pages? I'm gonna read it. I also put up on my stories the other day, I was like, why has nobody done a Frosty the Snowman where he comes alive from one night? Apparently, people have so many recommendations were sent to me. So for science, I'm going to read some Frosty the Snowman erotica this Christmas. I'm here for it.

Cass Geller: 1:05:46

It's gonna be so chilly. But why does that make me think of like Runix's was it the annihilator when he like pulls out the like ice cube?

Jordan: 1:05:56

Yeah, the ice uh the the dildo made of ice, but I'm also picturing uh Frosty's nose, and I'm just picturing a carrot. So I don't know which one's the best. Uh you have I need you to report back after you read some Frosty. I think I've got like four that I'm gonna read. They're all short, yeah. So I'm gonna read them all and then I I'll let the world know.

Cass Geller: 1:06:30

Yes, um, I I'm really hoping there's a carrot in one of them.

Jordan: 1:06:35

I'm gonna be really disappointed if there's not. Right? And I really want I want like one character to be like, I can see better. Like if that actually I please report back because I will actually read that.

Cass Geller: 1:06:52

Because I think I would die laughing, or maybe I just think it's funny and it's not actually funny.

Jordan: 1:06:58

Well, now I'm gonna be really disappointed if I read all of them and they don't have those in it at all. I'm gonna need you to write a frosty the snowman erotica store. I'll like put it under a pen name, and then no one's gonna know. No one's gonna know. Um, okay.

Cass Geller: 1:07:14

Now that we went off topic, um, which the I guess this is kind of like a similar question, but hopefully it's not. Uh, what is your favorite book? Like a book you would recommend to anyone and everyone. Doesn't have to be like romance, anything.

Jordan: 1:07:30

Uh so I always recommend the bone season to people. It's a commitment and it's it's quite heavy in the world building. Um there's uh six six books out, five books out, it's a seven book series by Samantha Shannon. She wrote Priory of Orange Tree, that massive book that okay. I have no idea. I haven't read it. Yeah. I love that series. Um it's amazing. It's a very slow burn as well. But again, I think that's more of a you have to have the palette for it, I think. You know, it's one because it is quite heavy on the world building, and there's a lot of political stuff that goes on, and it's just quite dense in that sense. But if you're looking for something that's a little bit kind of dystopian, urban, urban fan urban, it's it's in is urban fantasy when it's in the future? What is it when it's in the future? Future fantasy. Futuristic. Um I do recommend I do recommend um Empire the Vampire because I just think it's uh I just think it's it's a very clever, cleverly written, witty, dark, harsh, wonderful, like found family. There's just so much in that in this in this world and in this story. Um and if you can get if you can get into it, then it, you know, it picks up. It's very kind of interview with the vampire because that's really how the narration is. Um but it's so good. And the sexual tension between the vampire and the vampire hunter through the through the storytelling, it grows. And I'm here for that. I'd I'd really like them to kiss. I don't think they're gonna, but um, yeah, so that's that's also something that comes out of it. Uh I think I think I answered this last time as well. Like when people are the reason that I love Sarah J. Mass and Um, you know, like from Blood and Ash and stuff, and people get into these books, Quicksilver's been one of them as well. Um, you know, these these stories that get out so wide that people that haven't read in five, ten, twenty years pick up these books and they're like, oh my god, I found my love of reading again. So, you know, if someone's kind of just putting their feet in and trying to figure out what that means, that I think is so important. So I think we need those books. We need those books that go so far and wide to help people get back into it. Twilight, I mean, God, Hunger Games, you know, those books for when I was younger and they made a big, a big shift in in our generations as well. So, you know, those are kinds of books that I always recommend if if people are kind of starting, start start restarting their reading journey, starting their reading journey, because I think you can find so much in them. Um, and I think that's really important.

Cass Geller: 1:10:32

I I I agree. I like it. I put the Hunger Games is actually because I was never a reader, so I think it was in college I saw that the Hunger Games movie was coming out, and I was like, what is this? And I love Jennifer Lawrence, so I was like, I need to go see it. And so I was like, oh, but it's a book. So I started reading it, and that's actually what got me to start reading. Like I never was a reader before, so I I feel like that's kind of like what you were just saying. It's like I think that series will always hold a special place in my heart for like getting me into reading, and then same with Sarah because I had never read fantasy before, and someone gave me a court of thorns and roses and was like, read this. And I was like, uh, okay. And I'm like bored for like 75% of the book, but then it like really picks up and I'm absolutely obsessed and I loved it, throne of glass, everything. But I kind of like with what you were kind of saying, I do think now having read what I've read, I think if I were to go back and read Sarah J. Moss, it wouldn't have hit the same now than it did then. And so like Sarah still has a special place in my heart, but I do kind of agree with where I think you were going, at least with this, is like I do think it it what and I'm also glad I didn't read it in like the bookstagram era of like all of it.

Jordan: 1:11:51

I don't think I would have enjoyed it the way that I did.

Cass Geller: 1:11:54

I don't think so either. And so I think I'm like very happy I read it when I did, because then it's still like I can go back and reread it, and it brings me back to that time of like when I first read it and was obsessed. And so I like love it for that.

Jordan: 1:12:08

Those are the kinds of books that I want people to. I mean, there are you know, there are other ones, different genres. So like um Brain Weaver, you know, Butcher and Blackbird, um, lights out, you know, that's kind of I I wouldn't necessarily say it's it's genre bending, but it's getting people that maybe haven't stepped into those things into those areas. And it's just it, it's it's spreading readers further into you know, going outside of their comfort zones, maybe, or finding the love of different genres and and how they can just experiment. And so yeah, I think books like that are always going to be important because um it's I mean, reading is cool now, Joe. It's friggin' cool. It is cool. You know, we are cool. I see these massive, these massive like fashion influencers with hundreds of thousands of followers, and they're reading and they're reading Elsie Silver or you know, all of these different, and I'm like, this is this is fantastic because this is something that we worked so hard to do all of our lives because we were reading and nobody thought it was cool. And so I I get why people can get frustrated at that, but I I don't because I just think more people should read. We we should have more more people reading, so this isn't a bad thing.

Cass Geller: 1:13:23

No, and again, reading is cool, cool reading is cool, reading is cool, damn it. Yeah, the key takeaway of this episode reading is cool.

Jordan: 1:13:34

I have a sticker on my Kindle that says book nerd, so yeah, you know. I love it. I thought I was gonna say reading is cool. No, I'm gonna need a reading is cool one now, though. So I feel like no. I'll have to order that.

Cass Geller: 1:13:48

I never I've never made stickers, but now I feel like my first sticker is gonna be reading is cool. Reading is cool, yeah. Yeah. Um, okay, so we're at the last two questions of the interview, which is like personal. And um, so the first one is what is a fun fact about you that your readers and the listeners might be surprised to learn.

Jordan: 1:14:09

I don't know if this is a fun fact, but it's probably something that people um either don't believe don't believe, okay. Or uh so either they don't believe it, um, or um I don't really know what the second one was gonna be. Ultimately, it's I'm a huge introvert. Like I am so incredibly introverted, it's it's it's unreal. Um, and my job is also um I deal with people a lot. I speak to people every day, and like when new team members and stuff, when I tell them I'm introverted, like no one believes it. Um because I am very vocal and present, and you know, I'm talking to the camera and you know, um all of that kind of stuff. I think people just assume uh I'm an extroverted introvert, uh, but I'm not like if you meet me in person, I'm so awkward. Like I don't I I struggle to um create conversation with people. Like I'm really I really struggle with small talk um and and kind of building building rapport that way. That's why I take Sam everywhere with me because he's just like gets along with everyone, and I'm just like, you just have to just start it for me and then maybe maybe bring me into the conversation. Uh, because I I honestly I get horrendous social anxiety with stuff like that. Um so that that uh and the other side of that is I'm so introverted that um I I absolutely have to have silence. Like that's how I have to unwind. So if it's after uh and and Sam's the opposite, so this is a a bit of a contention in our household because he just wants to talk all the time, and I just need absolute silence, like a dark room with silence where nobody talks to me for an hour. And that's how I recharge. Um, but again, I think because I can sometimes come across, you know, on the interweb um as being very out there and open and stuff, I'm I I'm I'm not. Uh I think I I find a you find a confidence, you know, in in those places that you you probably don't have in real life, and that's absolutely true. I'm quite I'm I'm really honestly, yeah, I'm so awkward.

Cass Geller: 1:16:24

Wait, like same though. I'm it I am too. So I and that's why I also bring Nick places because he's the same as Sam, and he can just like he can have a conversation with anybody. And I'm like, okay, like and I'm also like I if I'm out in public, I just like forget all social cues too. So like I'll see people out that I like know. And you know how like the common courtesy is to then introduce yourself or like the person you're with, like to them. And so like Nick will be with me, and though that Nick will either be like, Hi, I'm Nick, I'm like Jordan's husband, or or like something like that. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. Like, I just I I don't even like think about like I'm like, I like I don't know.

Jordan: 1:17:14

I'm the same though, and there are so many like if that happens to me, I'm thinking of everything else. Like, first of all, I'm thinking, what's inappropriate to ask? Can I can I ask that? And it's something like, how's your day? Or you know what I mean? But in my head, I'm like, is that appropriate? Is it inappropriate? And then it comes out completely different words, anyways. So I'm always knowing that whatever's going on in my head is not what's gonna come out of my mouth. That scares me. Um yeah, I have forgotten to introduce Sam more times than I would like to count. Um, but yeah, I I just I struggle so much with it. And I don't want to, like I am trying to put, you know, I'm trying to, I feel like the older I get, the worse I'm getting. It's good fun.

Cass Geller: 1:17:56

Oh great. Well, I feel like that's gonna be me too. Because I'm I'm just like you cast.

Jordan: 1:18:03

So like there's no great, it's not great on this uh in on this side drawer. It's it's not great. I'm not saying there's no hope, but there's very little. It's it's not great. It's not it's not great. Okay, well, it doesn't help that my memory is deteriorating. You know what I mean? I thought it was just with the books. No, oh no, this is a full thing, and it's horrible. Like when we meet new neighbors and stuff, and they introduce themselves, and then I forget their names immediately. But then it's one of those things that you know, after months of like waving to them and things, you're like, Well, I can't ask their name now because they introduced themselves six months ago.

Cass Geller: 1:18:45

Oops, hi neighbor you, how are you? How are you doing today? Oh, how's your um how's your uh your partner? I can't remember their name. I remember the dog's name. I was just gonna say, just just be like, you're you're the no, I got nothing.

Jordan: 1:19:13

I was gonna say who are Lorenzo is the dog next door. You're Lorenzo's mother. That's how I think of her. The dog's name's Lorenzo. He's tiny, he's this big. It's honestly it fits him so well. I'm like, okay. I don't know why your name is I don't know why your name is Lorenzo, but absolutely 100% I'm here for this. Honestly, me too. I love it. Lorenzo. Lorenzo shout out to Lorenzo. Shout out to Lorenzo if you're listening.

Cass Geller: 1:19:43

Whoop whoop. Oh Jesus Christ. Okay, well, we have one more question. What is one future goal you would like to achieve, either long term or short term? And that could be in like writing, being an author, anything, Bookstagram. I don't know.

Jordan: 1:20:05

I think I would like to have a little bit more organization around my publishing schedule. Um, because I think now that I've done it kind of both ways in the Golden Key having a lot of pressure, and then Mary and Bright having no pressure, I feel like I can find a good balance in between. Um and because I haven't had the burnout this time, you know, I'm writing now. I think next release will probably be in about four months, four or five months. Um, and that's kind of I want to kind of keep doing that. So having one to two books published every year, depending on like the size um and the kind of intricacy of it if it's a series or a standalone obviously that that depends but yeah because I really love it like I I just I just really fucking love it I enjoy writing I enjoy um I don't enjoy the marketing I hate that um but you know I enjoy connecting with people that are reading it and um yeah I just like all of it and it's you know really cool to see books on your shelves with your name on them um and I want to keep doing that I I want to keep growing that so I think for me the goal is to just be a little bit more consistent. Um I think after the golden key I was just so done and then I went and had a baby so you know really just shoved it all in at once. So yeah I think for me it's it's more around consistency. And if I'm not really a long-term thinker to be completely honest with you I can't tell you what's gonna happen in the next two years or where I'm gonna be um but I just hope that I'm still writing and I'm I'm still publishing because I I find a ton of joy in that yeah I I hope you can keep doing it too because I want more of your stories. I love I love the golden key I love the and I think it's so I think it's fast like I you like put words I feel like now I'm sounds like I'm high you literally put words on paper but words on paper man so cool but like it is words sometimes my brain comes with such eloquent things to say but I feel that though it is really cool though so it's like I hope you can keep doing it you should keep doing it if you I that's the plan the friggin' plan um so yeah I'm you know again if one day I'm I'm in a in a position where I can I can do that more in full time that's great but I think right now I just want to make sure that I can keep doing it as I'm doing it.

Cass Geller: 1:22:54

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and letting me interview you again um I did want to give you the floor so you can like mention where people can find you buy the golden key and Miriam Bright on Amazon. Did that part for you got you Amazon.

Jordan: 1:23:15

Thank you for listening. Thank you Jorah for having me on again it's always fantastic to talk to you so in the future as I if I publish more then I I'm more than happy to be on again. Where can you find me pretty much exclusively on Instagram because I TikTok scares me um I don't know what Twitter or X really is anymore. I can be on threads sometimes as well but it's the same as Instagram it's Wonderland and whiskey. My name is Kath Geller. I am an American I live in London I am an author of two books um one that is a big beast so if you want to take that on the golden key uh and the other Mary and Bright she's she's a she's a little baby um but Christmas book if you're looking to get into your Christmassy reads then I got you uh with Mary and Bright but otherwise um yeah you can follow along on my my Instagram of all my ridiculous antics as you please or if you don't please then uh you can block me as well it's fine um you know if I don't bring you joy then don't keep me in your life what I say fair maybe don't block me just don't follow me yeah I feel like block's a little like excessive I the uh not interested I don't care what what whatever but um I'm really good at selling myself aren't I yeah you're you must everybody must go read the golden key and Mary and Bright yep do it because you'll regret both on Kindle Unlimited so if you have Kindle Unlimited they're free um I mean you have to put back free 99 you have to put one of the books back that you borrowed to get them but it's fine that's really someone oh I didn't I never knew there was like a limit because I never downloaded that many but then I like downloaded all of Zodiac Academy and that's when I found out there's a limit aren't there like 18 Zodiac Academies exactly oh yeah there's a limit I I'm I puppet by Kindle Unlimited though like because if I read a book that I absolutely love it could have been a year and a half ago I will not return it just in case I need to go into it like get quotes and stuff and then plus the author gets a page reads so yeah but like very weird you you you do you your highlights do stay if you return it.

Cass Geller: 1:25:50

No yes but you have to check it back out yeah but like you check it back in and everything stays the um the only reason I know this is because I re-downloaded Quicksilver to reread it and I was like why is it highlighted? Because I highlighted it the first time yeah oh but yeah but I just have this weird thing about giving it back I'm like I loved you so much I don't I don't want to give you back and I'm probably gonna probably gonna make content with you so you're there at the press of a button like when I have to return a book and I go through the books I borrowed I'm like I read that like two years ago why is it still on my Kindle you just loved it that much I'm like returning left and right bye bye you have served your purpose but actually except ex but except there are like the one like I can't get rid of um the fabric of our souls by KM Moranova but I'm also terrified to give it back because it has that new cover and I don't like it. Not I also own the physical I just can't get rid of Kindle because I like how is I need to rent and what I'm doing it's not we're the same Jor we're the same we are the weirdos yes to the weirdos to the weirdos reading is cool and we shall end the podcast there.

Jordan: 1:27:25

Well thank you so much Cass well thank you it's been an absolute joy um and thank you for letting me take up so much of your time it like thank you for letting like you're it's late. No thank you no thank you no damn it no I know it is I'm gonna go to bed well I'm gonna take my book to bed and read because of course I am all shere is you like putting your book down covering it with like a blanket and like good night and then like that idea for a reel that's I'm not gonna lie I'm just gonna I'm just gonna like bye bad just gonna go to bed with my Kindle and then it's like me walking upstairs and putting my Kindle next to me in bed and then covering it with a blanket I will be waiting for this real cast you laugh oh I'm waiting no I'm waiting yeah okay I'm laughing but I'm waiting I'm gonna I'm gonna credit you thank you I was gonna say photo credit real credit brain came up with it nobody's gonna get it until they listen to this episode because I still haven't stopped Craig oh Craig thanks Craig you've been fantastic yeah thanks Craig supportive supportive robot friend okay all right thank you