Spill the Smut

Danger, Desire & Dragons with Rachel Tork

• Jordan • Season 1 • Episode 16

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Two creatives walk into a fantasy—with dragons that talk back, gods who meddle, and a forbidden bond that refuses to break. That’s the energy Rachel Tork brings as we explore the making of To Kill A Goddess, a standalone fantasy romance that blends star-crossed devotion with the sweep of high fantasy. Rachel opens up about the long arc of worldbuilding—mythology, deities, and culture—then shows how the romance stepped forward, sharpening the pacing while keeping the prose textured and immersive. If you love yearning MMCs, trainer-trainee chemistry, a subversive shadow mommy, and that perfect “she treats his wounds” moment, you’re in the right place.

If dragons, forbidden love, and emotionally honest storytelling are your sweet spot, queue this one up. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves romantasy, and leave a quick review to help others find the show.

Follow Rachel Tork on IG @racheltorkauthor

Cover Art by: moi

Intro/Outro Music: positive vibes by nanaacom on Capcut

Contact Email: spillthesmutpodcast@gmail.com

Podcast IG: @spillthesmutpodcast TT: @spillthesmutpodcast

Jordan IG: @sipsoffiction TT: @sipsoffiction

Jordan:

She's an author who writes both fantasy and contemporary romances. And honestly, we love an author who can do both. She's all about the drama, the plot twists, and the kind of spice that hits you right in the soul. You know the kind, and it's the best kind of spice. Her latest release to Kill a Goddess is giving A Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros and When the Moonhatched by Sarah A. Parker Had a Baby. Yes, it's that good. So if you love those books, you need to add this one to your TBR. Without further ado, please welcome to the podcast, Rachel Torque. Hi. Hi. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast to talk about all. Well, we will get to it, but I have other questions, but to talk about your new release, which honestly like released a week ago.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Jordan:

Oh my gosh, no. Thank you. Um, okay, so I do before we get into the like episode, I really I do like to start off each episode with what has been the highlight of your week so far. So, what has been the highlight of your week so far?

Rachel Tork:

Uh, so I attended my first like in-person author event. Um, I went to book harvest in Chicago this past weekend. Um that's amazing.

Jordan:

I have a couple friends that actually went. How was it?

Rachel Tork:

It was so fun. It was so many people. I think there were like 1200 attendees. Um, so it was like, yeah, it was a lot of people. And like Bryn Weaver was in the same room as me, which was like just kind of crazy. I'm like, okay, New York Times bestselling author. Hey, yeah, it was so cool.

Jordan:

Oh my god, that's that's so cool. And like I like those events are like a lot, so that must have been like a crazy weekend. I can't even imagine to be like an author at like one of those.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, I think each signing session was around like five hours. So just like at your table for five hours talking to people and stuff, which was amazing, but also I was like so tired by the end of it.

Jordan:

Oh, I can only imagine also just like to have to talk that much too, because then you're talking to every person that comes to the your table. Where I feel like as a reader, you get breaks from talking, and you're like, Yeah, no, and you're also trying to like reel people in, you're like, come look at my book.

Rachel Tork:

So it's like you're constantly like on, yeah.

Jordan:

Oh, oh yeah. Oh my goodness.

Rachel Tork:

But that's so cool, and that's so exciting. It was very fun.

Jordan:

Oh, that that's definitely a highlight. I'm saying it's a highlight too. Um, okay, so I diving into the ep this episode. I really want to ask you what inspired you to be an author? Like, did you always want to be one, or was this something like the pandemic hit, and you're like, I'm gonna give writing a shot?

Rachel Tork:

Um, so I have always done like creative stuff. Like, I feel like from my really like young age, I couldn't really imagine myself doing anything that wasn't like in the in some sort of creative field, which for a while I kind of hated because I'm like, I want a stable job, but like I just literally can't couldn't ever like get myself to be interested in anything else. So initially I wanted to be, I was like a theater kid in high school. Um, so I wanted to be an actor. Um, so I actually lived in Los Angeles for like, I don't know, it was like six months maybe, and I went to acting school um right out of high school.

Speaker 3:

That is so cool.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, it was it was it was it was something, it was an experience. I'll give it that.

Jordan:

Hey, hey, I mean, honestly, you did it for six months. That's pretty amazing.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, I stuck it out as long as I could, honestly. But um, it's for some people, for others, not, um, which is totally fun. Um, and then I wanted to be a singer, so I like went through this like time period where I was like writing music and like stuff like that. Um then, so I used to, I used to be like a huge reader when I was little, and then in high school, I feel like this happens to a lot of people. I had to read a lot for school, and I just kind of didn't read as much for fun. And then at the beginning of college, like I when I was started at um university after all of the acting school stuff, I started reading like fantasy books again. And I was, I think I had a similar experience to a lot of people. Avatar was popular at the time, like getting popular, I guess. And I was like, oh, what is this? Like, I love fairies when I was a kid, and and yeah, and then I just started reading like everything under the sun, um, mostly fantasy to start with. And I was like, what if I wrote my own book? And then it just kind of snowballed from there. I mean, I just never stopped.

Jordan:

Oh my god. Well, that's kind of cool. Like, I think heard some other similar stories of people that tried acting. So it's out this is not the first story, but like of like this kind of way into it. But someone else I heard that was like an act tried acting, ended up going into agenting for like books and stuff. And I was like, really? And so it's actually I think it's like a pretty similar transition, which I never would have thought that. I never would have thought like acting into like either something to do with books. So I think that's kind of cool. Like, I think, and then also like singing, like that is so cool.

Rachel Tork:

Thank you. I literally just saw the other day some other author I follow, I can't remember who it was, but she posted that she had been like in she like lived in New York at one time and was like super into theater, and then like started writing books instead. And I was like, oh my god, it's literally me. So yeah, you're right. It's it doesn't seem like it's like just me.

Jordan:

No, but I guess too, like you guys have like this like creative mind. So I guess I can see like different forms of it like coming out in different ways, if that makes sense. Granted, you did say acting and singing, and of course, my first thought went to the life of a showgirl. I'm a huge Taylor Swift fan. So like now all I picture is you being like this show girl in your own way, and I think that's so cool.

Rachel Tork:

Thank you. Yeah, I think that for like a long time, I think that I was trying to do what I'm doing now, like storytelling. I just kept trying it through different avenues, if that makes sense. And it just took me a while to get to the one that like worked the best for me, which ended up being writing.

Jordan:

So and then too, like this. I feel like also like writing can now be on your own schedule, which is kind of nice. Where I feel like all the other ones, like acting and singing, it's definitely on someone else's schedule as well as your own. But like, you at least writing can be just your own. Um, I know too, like you write fantasy, your new release is fantasy, but you also write contemporary. So, how is like writing both? I feel like you don't really see that that much. And I think it's kind of cool that you have done both. Like, I I love contemporary romance, I also love a fantasy romance, but like I you don't really see authors doing both.

Rachel Tork:

I started with just fantasy, and really I just read fantasy to start with, maybe not so much when I was like a kid, but like once I started reading again again as an adult, I read mostly just fantasy, and so like obviously that's what I'm gonna end up writing. Um, but the book that got me into contemporary romance, um, okay, set a preface. I love Raylo, like, which is like from Star Wars, if anybody doesn't know, it's Ryan Kyler Wren.

Jordan:

Oh my goodness. I see that word everywhere. Everybody talks about that word, but I had no idea what it meant.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, so I was a big Star Wars nerd always. And so I like when they became a couple, like I call it when I saw Force Awakens, and everybody was like, no, and I'm like, enemies to lovers, guys. Come on. Um yeah, and so then I the first contemporary book I gave a chance was The Love Hypothesis by Allie Hazelwood, because I'm like, well, it's basically Raylo, like I gotta try it.

Jordan:

Everyone is someone was telling me that that was Raylo fanfic, but I I mean I didn't want to sound uncool, so I was like, Yeah, yeah, totally, but I had no idea what they were saying.

Rachel Tork:

No, it was. I think it was originally a Raylo fanfic that like you know got like republished as like uh like an original story type deal. Um, and yeah, so yeah, I read that and then I was like, wait, I actually love the way this is written, and I love like there's just something about like contemporary romance that like hits a different spot for me than fantasy. I think like the relationship, like you can sometimes get to a different emotional level that you don't always see in fantasy romance. And I don't know if it's because the story is like doesn't have as many outside medals and dragons and stuff, you know? And it's just like mostly about the characters, but yeah, I don't know, it just feel like it hits a different spot emotionally for me.

Jordan:

I I definitely agree with that because I f I feel like too I love a fantasy and like honestly, like more fan like I love a romanticy, but like I know it needs to have like some type of I like I feel like you can get a lot of romanticy that aren't very fantasy and they're still more like romance, like contemporary based, but they like throw in something to make it like romantic. Um but I I really like a fantasy because I feel like you can leave this world and I think like going on like this epic adventure is amazing. But I also like the contemporary, like you're saying, because it dives more into the relationship. And I don't know if it more so too because it's like tends to be the real life. I don't know if it's like being able to relate to these characters or if it's something of just knowing that whether it could happen to you or has happened to you hits like another spot for me. Because like I know too for myself, I started reading contemporary first, and then a friend of mine actually gave me like Avatar, and I was like, What is this fairy world?

Rachel Tork:

Like people were like, where are these sexy fairies? Like I write with giant wings fans.

Jordan:

And then of course what I did, I don't know about you. It Avatar was like my first fantasy, like romanticy type book that I was then I need everything, but I think I read it like on the rise, so it wasn't quite COVID, so nobody was talking about it on social media.

Rachel Tork:

But I read it around a similar time, like before I even had a TikTok account. I think.

Jordan:

Oh my god, and I think that's perfect because now I feel like Bookstagram and TikTok is just filled with spoilers. So now you I don't think you can go in with a blank slate of like not knowing what's gonna happen. And maybe you can, maybe you can, which I really hope so because I think you need to go in blind. But my mistake was then I was trying to consume everything, but because nothing was really out that was like it, I was reading more YA stuff and it was just not hitting the spot for me. I was like, wait, bro, I don't like this. I don't know.

Speaker 3:

Like, where's the smut? Right? Like, I am like, I need more fairy smut. Where is it?

Jordan:

But I but I'm so grateful for that friend because now I can consider like Sarah J. Moss like one of my favorite authors, and I never would have found her like without my friend, but I was still just like, damn.

Speaker 3:

Honestly, I don't even know how we got on this like side quest, and I'm not sure, but I love it.

Jordan:

We're here, we're here. Um, wait, so then how because you I think you wrote your fantasy book, like your two fantasy books first, then your contemporary, and now your fantasy again. So, like, how did this contemporary come to your mind?

Rachel Tork:

Okay, yeah. So um the contemporary romance was that was the longest I ever worked on a book, especially before like showing it to anybody, um, because I thought that I was like, I wrote it and I thought I was like crazy. Like I thought no one's gonna want to read this. Like, this is this is insane. Um, because it's it's a it's a very like niche, I feel like even amongst like contemporary romance, so it's a forbidden romance, which if you read my books, you'll know I basically just write forbidden romance. Like, that's it always ends up being forbidden. I don't know, I don't cry, but it just happens. Um, but so it's between a grad student and her professor, and it's set in a music school, and it's dual POV. Um, and it has the external pregnancy trope, which makes it like I feel like people either love that or they hate it. And so that has made it like interesting to find an audience for. Um, but back to finding the to thinking about the idea of it. I honestly don't know. Like, I I think I was listening to this. Is so, this is so like particular, but I was listening to do you remember when Gracie Abram's first EP came out? I don't know if you listened to her.

Jordan:

I love her, but honestly, um, don't hate me, but it's when Taylor Swift talked about her that I then started listening to her, like when she came on tour and stuff and like was like promoting her.

Rachel Tork:

But before that I didn't know, so yeah, she has her first her very first release, isn't I think, is an EP called Minor, I believe. And there's a song on it which you might have heard called I Miss You I'm Sorry. Oh, such a good song. It's like the prequel to I Love You, I'm Sorry, to which is also such a good song. Yeah. Um, so I I was like literally walking around, I was in school at the time in college, and I was walking around campus, and I always listened to music when I walk around campus, and I was listening to I Miss You, I'm sorry, and I just started seeing these like scenes of like this like professor like shoving somebody against well, not the girl, like somebody he's like protecting, whatever. I started like maladaptively daydreaming about this like crazy ass book. And then I kind of just like sat down. It was during my spring break, I think. So I had like a lot of free time, and I sat down and I just like drafted that thing in like I don't know, a week or two. Like I just like smashed out like 70k words in two weeks, and I was like, what the hell just happened? Um, and then yeah, and then I spent, and originally it was only one POV, which is kind of an interesting thing because I feel like I've heard a lot of people who have read it, including my publisher, be like, I cannot imagine this book with single POV. And I'm like, no, like I agree with you, but um, but yeah, it was a book that like really like simmered for a very long time in my brain, and I kept going, I kept going back to it. And so I'm like, that's how I knew, like, okay, well, I need to actually pay attention to this and try to like get this out there somehow.

Jordan:

Um oh my god, wait. So did you originally write it not thinking it would go anywhere? You just kind of wanted to get it down on paper, and then like you kind of wrapped up this story, and you're like, no, wait, this needs to like the world needs to see this kind of thing.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, it was like I will have these like things where all these drafts, I guess, we're all like write it just like, oh, it's a passion project. Like, I need to get it out, or I won't be able to focus on anything else type project, I guess. And it was one of those. Um, but oftentimes when I do that, I'll write like 30k words and never think about it again. It'll just be like out of my system. But this one, I finished it and it kept coming back to me. And I'm like, hmm, okay. I gotta, I gotta like look into this a little closer.

Jordan:

Wait, oh my god, wait, that's so cool. I didn't, I also didn't okay. Now I have a random question. So those like passion projects you do, do you save them or do you just get them out on paper and then you delete them? So, like, would you ever like if I don't know if it ever or they do come back to you, but if it does come back to you, do you go back to it and like write some more? Or is that not?

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, so I I write everything in Google Docs for the most part, unless I'm like getting it ready to be formatted. I'll put it in Word. But um, yeah, so I have like my Google Drive is probably getting full at this point. Um, so I just have like a bunch of like Google Docs that are like anywhere from like 10k to 40k words, like of like star to story ideas that may somewhere go, may someday go somewhere and may not. I don't know. Like literally this week I started kind of like going back to something that I had started, I don't know, at the beginning of the summer, I think. Um, and I was like really into it. And then I think, oh, I got married this summer, and so it took a lot of my time and brain power to get married. Essentially. Congrats. Thank you. Thank you. Um, but yeah, so that's why I like stepped away from that and then like kind of ended up recently. I got back from book harvest and I'm like, hmm, like I'm looking at my drafts and like let me like see what I could work on this week. Um, and yeah, and then I kind of went back to that. So yes, it does happen where I will go back to a draft that I previously abandoned.

Jordan:

Okay, all right. Uh honestly, I'm like so intrigued by this. So I'm actually going to ask you another question. Do all your books start as like essentially a passion project, or do you know, like, okay, to kill a goddess, did that start off of let me get some words on a paper down on paper? Or were you like, no, no, no, like I have this whole story and I need to get it out? Like, I'm curious if it was like you just ended up finishing it and then it's like.

Rachel Tork:

It seems that to give to kill to kill a goddess was kind of both, I guess. I knew I wanted to try to dip my toes into writing something that was a little like heavier on the fantasy side. But then once I started writing it, it started to become more of a romance, I guess. And then I think that's when I really like it, like took on, took off on the track. Like, I think it was a really like I had that the idea for To Kill a Goddess two or three years ago. Like started plotting out the world building and like sort of the plot, I guess, but really mostly the world building. Like I have this, like, I had this like notebook um that I've like had all these things, like, you know, the history of the world, like the religion, like the deities, all that kind of stuff, and like where these things came from. And then I kind of like abandoned it for a little bit and I'm like, um, writing this other thing. Um, you know, whatever I was else I was working on at the time. Um, but then I I feel like dragon books started to get big again, like in these past several years, you know, mostly from like fourth wing and stuff. Um, but I also read a lot of other ones, like there's this one, um, I wrote down the title. Oh yeah, it's called The Night Ends With Fire by KX Song. Um and it I think that I think it's duology, and I think the second one just came out. And I really, really love the writing in that. I don't know if I would necessarily compare Two Killer Goddess to that book, but like in terms of dragons being on my brain, I guess. Um, When the Moon has two was like one of my favorite reads of of uh this year.

Jordan:

So um I like Yeah I think I sorry, sorry, that one's on my TBR, the Sarah Jessica, Sarah Jessica. Oh my gosh, Sarah A. Parker.

Rachel Tork:

You know, I keep I almost keep saying Sarah Jessica Parker too when I say that.

Jordan:

I and I don't know why. I think my brain just automatically goes there, and I don't mean to, but here we are.

Rachel Tork:

That literally happens to me sometimes too. But yes, I would absolutely recommend reading that book. She's thick, but don't be don't be intimidated. I think that like it was really I felt like it was really fresh to me for a romantic. Like the world building was different than what I'm used to. Um and like the romance, I feel like was really fresh in that one. Like, I some people said they expected the twists and stuff. I did not see it coming. Maybe I'm just stupid, but like I thought it was really fresh.

Jordan:

So okay, fair. I look for certain books. I I try not, I not that I go in blind. Well, no, I do go in blind in books, but for um certain books, like I won't try to, you know how like you people want to figure things out. I just I'm along for the ride. I'm trying not to figure out anything because like I just wanna, I just I just want to have fun. I just want to read and have fun, and I'm like on this like ride, romantic ride.

Rachel Tork:

So I I'm literally the same way. Like, I feel like when I see too much about a new release, I have to like not like I can't read it right away. Like that's happened to me several times with anticipated releases, especially in series, where like people will talk about it a ton on book talk when it comes out, and then I like even though I was so excited for it, I have to like wait a little bit for to like be interested in it again because I don't want to know anything about it before I read it.

Jordan:

Same. Or um the two like people will have if I'm going to read something like on release day, I like make sure I don't look at anything because I feel and I don't know why, but I feel like when I see reviews and people's reactions to things, it it like I form an opinion based off that. So I like don't want to know people's opinions because I want to form my own opinion about a book. So I also for the same reason, if it's too much, then I don't read it because and that's kind of like um well, this kind of gives it away. Uh Alchemized just released, but I feel like I'm seeing it everywhere, and there's kind of like a lot of mixed reviews I'm seeing. So I'm like, you know what? I'm not even going to try reading this right now. I'm gonna wait a little bit and wait for December, yeah. Yeah, because it's just like I fear, I fear that I'm going to like have an opinion, but because of these other opinions people are saying, and I'm like, I don't want that. I want to have like my own opinion and my own thoughts. So I shall just wait.

Rachel Tork:

I feel that I feel like it's like a similar for me, it's like similar to reading reviews for my books, especially if it's a like a series. Like, don't do that to if any like if you ever write a book to any author listening listening, do not look at your Goodreads, it's not worth it. Um, unless it's something that you like personally like to do. I it's never it's always put me in a writing slump every single time without fail. So I always avoid it.

Jordan:

Um I feel like people can be harsh. So I I'm like, wow, you even looked at Goodreads reviews, but I now recomm like I see that you're like saying don't recommending, don't do that. Because I rookie mistake, don't do it. Yeah, I feel like because people are brutal. And then of course, like there's the whole like you definitely should not be tagging authors in negative reviews on social media.

Rachel Tork:

So please don't do it, don't do it, babes. Don't do it.

Jordan:

But like also, like, whoo, oh, I don't think I like I mean, I don't write anything, but I still like could not even like people are brutal out there.

Rachel Tork:

Umce it's out, it's yeah, it's everybody else's.

Jordan:

Yeah, it's everybody else's. Um so I know we kind of like dived into this a little bit. So I wanted to ask you what and stories inspire you, and then like your some of your favorite like authors and books. Like, I kind of wanted to ask you that.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think I'm really driven when it comes down to it, I'm very driven by um very emotional stories and characters that um that connect despite maybe things that have happened. And I'm like, I explain. I feel like when I try to explain the way I like to write romance, I always like to say, like, I like to write about the way that like trauma and then like romantic relationships intersect because I think that there's a lot of like opinions out there about like if you've been through stuff, like how that affects your ability to be in a romantic relationship. And then I really, really like exploring that because I'm of the opinion that you can absolutely be in a healthy romantic relationship, even if you've been traumatized or has stuff have stuff going on, which who doesn't? Um, so I really, I really like a very emotional stories and like flawed characters, I guess, if that makes sense. Yes.

Jordan:

No, that definitely makes sense. And I feel like those because those are the stories that like you can relate to too. Like someone can relate to that. And it it also is awful that someone can relate to it, but I think if they can, it's almost it's being able to um kind of heal from that trauma through books too. And I think that's really special.

Rachel Tork:

Right. And like just like feeling like, you know, you read something, and maybe it's not exactly your experience, but it still I think sometimes helps you feel less alone or or less other or whatever, you know, whatever that sense of like belonging and like you're you can be okay, you can love someone, you know, that kind of feeling um is really special to me. So I do try to put a piece of that into all my books. Um, and I feel like I've read some books recently um that I feel like have kind of like in in the past, but there's this one series that I started reading recently, and I'm sure a lot of people know it. Like I'm probably really, really late to the game. Um, but I recently started reading Um Boys of Tommen by Chloe Walsh. Oh my gosh.

Jordan:

I I read I've only read the first two because those hurt.

Rachel Tork:

So I'm like, you know, I gotta take a break. And I'll come back. If you read um the second duet, um, yeah, it's prep yourself. It's it's like I knew I heard going into it that it's the second duet is even more like hard to read, like it's even more emotional. Um, yeah, it's I I think that I would reread Binding 13 and um keeping 13, but I don't think I would read I don't think I would reread Joey's duet. Like I honestly don't think I ever will. I was really good.

Jordan:

So I'm so scared. I like want to read it and I have it. It's on my bookshelves. It's just like I, you know, it's like one of those you that's like you know it's gonna be like a tough read. So you just need to know that you're in the right headspace for it. And I know I am not. So I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna hold off.

Rachel Tork:

And when I'm good, I'm good. And we'll absolutely no, it's definitely one of those where you have to like, yeah, like take responsibility for your own like emotional state of well-being and know if you're good to read it or not. Because I did the same thing. I finished, um, I finished keeping 13. I think that's what it's called, the second one, right? I think so. Yeah, I think so. I think so, yeah.

Jordan:

And then I took like a good break before I like stepped into the other ones because well, and I don't know about you, so I love to go into books blind. So I went into that series blind, but I but I knew that it was gonna be like an emotional read. I knew that Shannon had like family stuff going on. I knew like all this stuff, but I did not know to the level that it was going to be. But that's that's on me because it was like I go in blind and I devoured it. It's like you just can't stop reading them, they're like that good. But then I like you get to that certain part in keeping th keeping, yeah, keeping 13. And I was just like, What just happened?

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, no, I know. Um, I did not know anything about these books. Like, I see them on book talk, like just the titles and the covers don't like give any sort of like they're romance books, that's all I knew. And I saw like one of them had like a trope that I liked, and I'm like, ooh, like their own kind of I had all right, let's give it a shot. And then I started reading it, and I was like, what the hell? Like, what did I say before? Right, but then I was like, wait, like I love books like this, but also oh my god. So yeah, I I absolutely went that was one of the few series recently that I have gone in completely blind on, like completely. I had no idea what they were about. Um, yeah, so that was that was a wild ride. Yeah.

Jordan:

I need to continue. I need to continue it.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, they're so good. But yeah, that's I feel like maybe I would say maybe my book's not quite that level in terms of emotion and just like the trauma that the characters go through, but um like I feel like same uh same vibe, you know, like same same intention, I guess, in terms of like connecting with the characters really on a very like emotional level, even in difficult situations.

Jordan:

I like that. I like that. I don't know if you have any others that you wanted to add to that.

Rachel Tork:

I was gonna oh I did write down some books that I liked when I was younger because I feel like that like your influences from when you're like when you first started reading always like tend to creep into your like current preferences in terms of writing or reading. Um, I really liked I had like this weird obsession with the book and the movie. Do you remember If I stay? It's by Gail Foreman. It's about a it's like a she's like a cellist and like her whole family dies in a car accident.

Jordan:

But she doesn't, she's like in she's like in a coma. Yes, whatever, like yeah, and people would visit and she's like, Oh my, oh my gosh, I totally forgot about that book. I definitely read that in high school, and I devour it was so good. And she literally the whole time was do I join my family or do I stay?

Rachel Tork:

So think like for my contemporary romance. I mean, think about like the music elements and like the emotional elements and also kind of the character design of the MMC. Like, that's the lines we cross is very similar in some ways to that book. And honestly, I didn't even realize it till a couple days before publication day, and I'm like, wait, wait, this is like actually kind of similar to if I stay. So yeah, I love that.

Speaker 3:

I oh my gosh, I totally forgot about that book.

Rachel Tork:

Thank you for reminding me. You're welcome. I know that happens to me all the time. I'm like, I read that, like what? Um, I was also a big, like in terms of fantasy, I was also a big Shadow Hunters fan. Oh yes, oh my gosh, such a good series.

Jordan:

I um yeah, yeah, but honestly, the movie sucked, and I I have no idea about the show, but like the books, amazing.

Rachel Tork:

The book's so good, yeah. Hated the movie, hated the show, but yeah, the books are so good. Um, Clary and Jace were my first like fictional ship, like big fictional ship, which is like kind of traumatizing if you know anything about how their relationship begins and what plays out before they become like a true couple. Yes, yeah, yep, yep. And I don't think I'm alone in that experience. You're everybody's like, I'm 12 and I'm like shipping these, yeah. Yeah, like Cassandra Claire, why did you do this to me?

Jordan:

I know, and it's it's so funny too because it's like you're you're young reading in this and you're like, yes, yes. What? Yes, and it's like, but you're young and it's like weird, and then and then things happen and things change, and you're like scarred.

Rachel Tork:

That is the only time while reading a book, I was so like nervous and like upset about what was happening and what was going to happen that I kid you not, I finished uh I think it's like the second book when stuff goes down in relation to the weirdness. And I I look it up. The books were already the a few more of the books were out, and I just couldn't, I couldn't take it. I like had to look it up, and then I've never done that before or after that, but I could not take it.

Jordan:

Honestly, understandable. I think I read them later, so someone kind of warned me, or or I don't know. If they warn me or if I brought it up to them like after I found out, I was like, Do you know this? And they're like, just keep going, you'll be fine. And I was like, oh yeah, and it gets better. Trust me, it gets better. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

unknown:

Yep.

Jordan:

Okay. So I did want to ask how, like, how is it working with a small press compared to like, I don't know if you've ever tried to self-publish anything, or like, how is it do doing both? Like, what do you like most about working with a small press? Um, yeah.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah. Um, so I started off um self-publishing. Um, so my first book was self-published, and I always kind of had an interest in TradPub. Um, but like the creative restrictions, and then also like if you know anything about TradPub, like the timelines are always like from like when you, you know, query your book to when your book actually gets published, it can be years. And all of that tended to like make me nervous about that part of the industry or just like intimidated, I guess at the very least. Um, so I did query several of my books for like short periods of time. Like, I wouldn't really say I was in the querying trenches by any means, but um, but so that was kind of around the time that I queried to Azala Press. Um, and I feel like working with them has been a really good sweet spot for me because I really liked a lot of the about being self-published, but I also really hated a lot of the like logistical pieces and they kind of scared me. Like things like formatting, distribution, influencer outreach, like those kind of things tended to always make me very nervous and like I'm doing this wrong. Like, what am I doing? Um, and Azala Press tends to handle all of those annoying, scary things for me, um, which is really nice. But I also like retain um creative control. It's more of like a collaborative effort um in terms of finding cover artists, um, you know, formatting even sometimes like we'll collaborate on stuff like like chapter headings, things like that. Um, like I have like pretty much full say of anything I want creatively when it comes to my books. Um, but I also get help with all of like the annoying like publishing things.

Jordan:

Oh, so that that's kind of cool. I don't well, okay. Then I also wanted to ask. So do you, as being like the author, let's say you need like an editor as in like someone to like go through edit, like whether it's like developmental. I don't know if that's like the right word.

Rachel Tork:

Like Yeah, develop developmental, um, then there's line edits line edits and copy edits. So those are like your three kinds of edits for books, but yeah.

Jordan:

Okay. Um wait, I'm this is gonna sound so stupid. What's the difference between line edits and copy edits?

Rachel Tork:

Um line edits is more like reworking your sentences to make them not sound like awkward, I guess. In most cases, I think that's typically what they're looking for, is like wording and things like that. And then copy edits is like I think what most people think edits are, which is just like grammatical stuff, or like something misspelled or like an extra word, things like that.

Jordan:

Okay, then that makes sense. So now does that is that something you still need to do yourself, or does the press do that, like for you?

Rachel Tork:

Azala has an in-house editor um that they use if they typically use. Um, and so um I've worked with her for um like when I first signed on, my book was already edited. Like I already had professional edits done that I um, you know, kind of sourced out. Um, so it didn't really need that much work, but like the lines we crossed was entirely an Azala like creation, I guess is how you would say that. Like in terms of the editing, the cover, the formatting, like it was all done um by Azala. And so yeah, their their editor um did those developmental line and copy edits for that book and for Degala Goddess as well.

Jordan:

See, and I feel like that's really cool in the sense of like being able to work with like a small press of when you don't know what to expect either, as either being like a new author or whatnot, they I feel like you can kind of go to them and probably ask them all these questions of like I in even them just knowing like okay, this is what we should, this is what we're gonna do next, and then this and this, and just like I feel like authors not, especially debut authors, just kind of like, I don't know what to do next.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, and there's not really a good like here's how you do it. Like you kind of have to like learn to make a lot of mistakes along the way, which is part of like growing, obviously. But yeah, it's really nice to have someone kind of hold your hand and be like, oh no, that's how you don't do it like that, do it like this. And I also think like it took me a really long time to find like a community within um like author spaces online, um, because I definitely like got burned a few times, like trusted the wrong people, that kind of like we all go through that, I think, in online communities. And so a Zala Press was really the first time that I found like a group of people online, a group of writers online that I really trusted. And I knew that they were supporting me not just for my work, but also like value valued me as a human being, which is you know very important, obviously, especially in a field where people are not only judging your like product, but also sometimes you as a person because you're using your face to sell your product, oftentimes on TikTok, so or Instagram, whatever, you know. So, yeah.

Jordan:

Yeah, and I think too, like, I feel like sometimes people get can get too much behind like the money of it. So they're not like that. I think that can be like a big factor, which is not nice and not fun. Um, so I did also want to ask, like, what advice would you give an author, like a debut author, or even an author that's self-published but wants to work with a small press? What advice would you have for them?

Rachel Tork:

Um, I would say definitely do your research because I did work, so I did work with a small press prior to Azala for a very short period of time, and it was a very negative experience. So I was very much like like, you know, eyes wide open going into working with Azala because I was like, I don't want this bad situation to happen again. Um and so, really, like if you have questions in that initial meeting, with if you, you know, if you like query and the press is interested, like ask those questions. Do not be scared to ask, like, how does this work? Or like what happens in this situation? Um, and one of the green flags was that um was that MK who runs Azala was like really open with me about everything. And she was like, Oh, like we have another author signed on already. Like, if you want to talk to her about it, like please feel free to reach out and ask her about her experience. Like, she wasn't trying to, I could tell she wasn't trying to hide anything, um, which was absolutely a green flag to me. So, like if if you feel anything is off, like touch your gut when it comes to working with anybody in the publishing industry. Um, definitely always have a lawyer look over your contracts before you sign them. Don't just sign something blind. Um, you know, at the end of the day, there are so many avenues into publishing, and like it's such a big industry. And I feel like there are so many like different like self-there's like self-publishing. Some authors are hybrids, some people are just in Tradpub. And I feel like people will tell you what the right way to do, what the right way for you for your career is, and it's like, well, nobody knows that. Like you have to do what's right for your career at the end of the day because it's your career, it's your books, your stories, and you gotta like trust your gut um going into any sort of uh you know, publishing deal or whether you decide to self-publish anything, really.

Jordan:

I I completely agree. I heard advice from an author. This was like years ago, and not that I'm an author, but I heard like she was like talking, and it was clearly for other authors, but I'm like listening. I think it's like so interesting. Um, as she was saying, too, like for an author, especially a new author, it was she gave the advice of you need to figure out like what your path is. Like, what do you want to get out of this journey? Like, what is your goal? Like, is your goal to make a ton of money? Is your goal to tell the story you want to tell? Is your goal to be in airports? Like, you just need to figure out what your goal is and then cater towards that, which I completely agree because I I do kind of agree with you because maybe self-publishing is the right avenue for you if you for whatever reason, maybe you want to be with a small press because you don't really know what to do and someone has a guiding hand, and maybe you want to be in an airport, so the traditional route is for you. So, like there's so many different ways to achieve your goal, especially I feel like in the book world, which this is where I love and hate Amazon because I think Amazon's very cool for self-published authors, like people that not might not have ever seen like their story like in a physical form of like a bound book, because a publisher might not have found them. But I think Amazon's very cool with their like publishing platform of like bringing their book to life, essentially. And I think that's so cool.

Rachel Tork:

Yes, love hate relationship with with with KDP, which is Amazon's self-publishing service. Absolutely. Their royalties suck, but man, do I love the opportunity to be yeah, to have started. Um, yeah, and I think the interesting thing too about like the industry right now is that it's really like very rapidly changing. I mean, you're seeing a lot of traditional publishers picking up self-published authors, like every day I feel like I see some author that I follow who started off self-published, announcing a publisher's marketplace deal with a you know six-figure deal with this big publisher. And I'm like, it's really cool. Like a lot of people are going hybrid. I think that the traditional published publishing industry is finally like realizing that there's, you know, like money basically in um in self-publishing or from self-publishing at the very least. So I feel like it's kind of shifting towards almost sourcing a lot of their big titles from the already self-published pool. Because it's like, well, that person comes already along with a sales record that's, you know, potentially really good, or a ton of followers, or, you know, a really um, you know, devoted readership. And it's like all of that stuff is already built in. They're not having to build from the ground up with debut, with like a debut author who, you know, just doesn't really have a following. So, which I think obviously both paths are very legit. I just think it's I think it's cool that there's like so many more options now that than are than there used to be in publishing. And I'm really interested to see like how the industry continues to shift.

Jordan:

I I am too. And I I think it's also very cool because even bookstores, like bookstores will are carrying self-published books. They're carrying like, and you can like as long as long as it's on Ingram, like they can like purchase it, then carry it. And I think that's really cool. I can sometimes even go into my indie bookstore and see like a self-published book that I'm like, oh my gosh, that is so stinking cool that this is here. It is like ta-da.

Rachel Tork:

And no, every time I see one, even if I haven't read it, I'm like, ooh, you know, right. If I know that it was by a self-published author, it's very like yay, you know.

Jordan:

Right? I think it's just so cool, like overall, like so cool. Okay, so I really want to dive into your new release to kill a goddess. Um, I like want to make sure we talk about it. So I was hoping, can you tell us a little bit more about your story and like what it's about? And yeah.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, so I I tend to pitch it as it's a standalone romanticy. Um, and like the main tropes are Starcross Lovers meets dragon riders. Um, and that's kind of where Starcross Lovers is kind of where my like forbidden love brand comes in, like kind of like a intersection there. Um, and it's like a it's kind of like a slowburn until it's not kind of book, like in terms of both the romance and the plot. So it's a pretty quick read, um, especially for a fantasy book. But it starts off like eases you into the world, I would say, in terms of the world building, eases you into the relationship until everything just kind of goes like kind of explodes in the end. Um does have some like Percy Jackson vibes in terms of like there's like um uh gods involved and like children of gods, like half bloods, things like that. Um, it's got a shadow mommy, which I love. I love inverting tropes like that, you know. But everybody loves the shadow daddy, but what about the shadow mommy? Yeah, I am totally here for that. Yeah, um, it's got like talking dragons, like that are sassy. So if you like that from like fourth wing. Um it's got a yearning MMC, which I feel like is hot right now. Like everybody's looking for the yearning men. Um, this guy definitely yearns for a really long time. Like he's like, he's got sad boy vibes a little bit. Um, so if you like that too. Like I saw a lot of when Summer I turn pretty came out. A lot of people were talking about how Conrad was like a sad wet cat.

Speaker 3:

Wait, stop. No, I never saw that, but that's amazing.

Rachel Tork:

Okay, I saw this. There's just this one TikTok that circulated like right around the end when the finale was coming out, and everybody was like, he's a sad wet cat. And I'm like, okay, well, that kind of fits the vibe of of this MMC. But in a fantasy world, he fights teach of swords and stuff, and he's muscled, but he's also kind of a sad wet cat.

unknown:

I love that.

Rachel Tork:

I'm so excited. Yeah, it's like my new favorite way to describe like love interests, honestly.

Speaker 3:

Honestly, it's it now will be my sad wet cat. Like this, yes.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, like I love, I love me a good, like down bad for her. Like, like he'll like you know, he can like fight and stuff, but like when it comes to her, he's just like on his knees, like pathetic. Like, I'm perfect. Yes, agreed. Um, and then it's like a trainer meets um trainee vibe. So that's kind of how their relationship starts, is like she's supposed to, he's supposed to be training her to fight and stuff. Um, and then my like favorite scene ever in the entire book, which I actually added um during like my edit editing period of the book. So this is like an an edition after I finished drafting, um, is there's like the she treats his wounds trope, um which is like a very I feel like that's also kind of inverted. I feel like it's usually the other way around.

Jordan:

I I agree, but I love I I love when it's she treats his like wounds. I don't know what it is, but I just I love it. And then of course I'm going back to the summer I turned pretty where Belly does it to Kyle. Oh my god, that one scene, the bass web scene. Oh my god, did you see so many, so many people were tweeting being like, I would have made Jeremiah an uncle right then and there?

Speaker 1:

Oh my god, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Rachel Tork:

I absolutely I think it's something about like the vulnerability, maybe, and like she treats his wound scenes. Like, there's like he be like maybe like an MMC who's usually very like, you know, kind of a hard ass, like kind of guy, especially in like a fantasy book where it's no weakness, kind of yeah, right, shows no weakness, like it that very much translates to this um MMC. And but yeah, in that scene, he's very, like, very vulnerable, like very like sad boy. Like, yeah. So I it's like my favorite scene in the entire book, which was so funny to me because again, I added it later. Um, but I just it was one of those scenes of like it needs something about their relationship in development needs this, and it was yeah, it's oh perfect.

Jordan:

Oh my god, I'm excited. Thank you.

Rachel Tork:

Okay, so it is a oh sorry, go ahead.

Jordan:

I was just gonna say, because I I'm curious because you don't really see that many like standalone fantasies. So, have did you just always think this was gonna be a standalone, or is this like, I don't know, maybe one day it turns into a series?

Rachel Tork:

So when I first started with the idea for this book, it was like very different. Like I was gonna write this like more like you know, a big fantasy world with lots of politics. It was gonna have like multiple P of Vs um from like different people in different kingdoms, I guess. Um and like that's how it kind of started when I put was plotting it, and then I started to write it. And unsurprisingly, the romance started to take to take a front seat, and I was like, oh wait, we're shifting, shifting gears. Um I mean, like I definitely could see there being potential with spin-offs for this book, um, both prequels or like second generation type stories. Um, so I feel like this one like could be a stepping stone into a bigger world, but I like I haven't decided yet, I guess, if that's gonna happen. I'm gonna kind of see like things go like with the release and everything, and you know what people say and that kind of thing. Sometimes I feel like you kind of have to like feel out the market a little bit before you make you know a big decision about that. Um but yeah, so it's I feel like I get that, it's kind of like you're just like like dipping into this world a little bit. Like there's absolutely potential for there to be both feed in at some point.

Jordan:

Okay, okay. So then I'm guessing too, like you oh well, no, because you were well, okay. If you were originally thinking like multiple POVs from multiple like kingdoms, did you then think it would have been a series? But because the romance took kind of like a four, it kind of like came to the forefront, you were like, no, no, no, this needs to be one book type thing.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, I think that was, yeah, I think that was kind of my like process during it. And then it just ended up like I definitely talked to my publisher and I'm like, we could make this like a demology or a trilogy, and we were kind of like, if it's gonna be like romance led, like that's that's what the readers, that's what the readers are seeing like as the main plot, and like doesn't necessarily need to like drag on, I guess. Like you kind of have to know when it doesn't need to keep continuing, like even if you wanted to sometimes, you're like, this will do better.

Jordan:

Just no, I kind of agree because I feel like I've read duologies where you can tell the author dragged out the second half. That I was like, it definitely falls flat because you could have just made a longer book one and skipped like a good portion of the second book and just stuck the end to the end of the first. So I I I agree with that, like, even though like I can understand like maybe wanting to drag it out, but like sometimes not necessarily for the best.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, and I think um, oh man, I just had a point in it.

Jordan:

Oh, I hate when that happens. I hate when that happens.

Rachel Tork:

You're like talking, I'm like, wait, I have a really good point. And then as soon as it was quiet, I'm like, hmm, no thoughts of God. Yeah, okay. Well, I'll let you continue on. And if I if I think of it, I'll bring it up.

Jordan:

We'll we'll circle back. But like I think that I think that's kind of cool. Um, oh, I did want to ask you, um, because you haven't marked down as high fantasy. Okay, what it what do you think makes it a high fantasy? Because I know you mention like there's a romance aspect, but I don't but I think this is really cool. Cause like I don't think you really market it as romanticy. I think you mark it at more as high fantasy, which honestly I think that's very cool. But like, what made you go in that direction?

Rachel Tork:

So when I if I were to tell somebody like genre-wise where this falls, I would say, like in a traditional sense, because of this the um speed of the story and how much the romance is at a forefront, like it would probably fall into romantic, but I do think that some of the world building um and the way that the prose is, like, falls more into high fantasy, especially compared to my other fantasy series, which is like strongly situated in the romantic genre. Like, I would not call that even a fantasy romance, my other series. It's very much romantic, like it's got um first person V, like very like snappy, sarcastic um type dialogue and prose. Like it's it's like more almost reads more contemporary, I guess. Um, which I feel like you see sometimes with romanticy. Whereas um to kill a goddess is definitely more leaning towards fantasy in terms of the writing style, which I think is why I tend to say like high fantasy, just to kind of warn people that like this isn't like my other book. This is going to be a little bit different. Like it's third person POV. Um, the writing tends to like look around more, especially in the beginning. Like, I feel like the description is a lot like slower and like there's more of it. Um, and then also I think that the style in the book, like the style of the writing, I guess, relies a lot more, relies a lot less on the main character's inner dialogue and um like for flavor, and instead relies more on like grammatical devices, like like change in paragraph structure or change in punctuation to kind of convey the mood, which I feel like is more of a fantasy thing.

Jordan:

Oh, okay. So then to so would you say this is more of like an intermediate fantasy then? Because it's like I so I think like fourth wing is very good for like beginners. I think like if you haven't really read a fantasy, I think fourth wing is a perfect place to start. So would you say this would be more in the middle to advanced level then?

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, I would say yes. In terms of if you're maybe not the pacing, like obviously expect quick pacing, which is not a super common fantasy element, but in terms of the writing and like at least the start of the world building, like getting into the world, um, it's gonna be closer to yeah, to like a middle ground, like intermediate type fantasy. That's a good word, that's a good word for it. Intermediate. I like that.

Jordan:

I I saw like some people like do beginner intermediate and advanced fantasy, and I was like, oh, it's a good way to explain it. Because I feel like I because I know there's a lot of people that want to start fantasy, but I don't necessarily think you should probably start with like Throne of Glass by Sarah J. Moss. But some people do, some people do. Definitely was not my first. I'm glad A Court of Thorns and Roses was, um, because I can go into it more.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah, I think I read I read Avatar before Throne of Glass, and I'm glad I did because it's like different.

Jordan:

But honestly, Throne of Glass is like my favorite series of all time.

Rachel Tork:

No, literally, yeah. I'm rereading some of it right now.

Jordan:

Oh my gosh, I want to reread it so badly. I just like haven't yet. But I I think this goes with the because it's weird, and I don't know if you come across this, but I find a lot of people don't like third person. I love third person, but I feel like most people want that first person point of view. But I think first person point of view is great if you want to learn something along with the character. Where third person, I feel like you bring in this other narrator that like the characters can already know things that we don't, and we're learning it as like this outside entity, which I think I feel like you can have more room to do things with third person, but and I don't know why everybody wants first person.

Rachel Tork:

I like really do not I don't know either. I feel like it's more of a recent thing. I don't think like I feel like that it did not used to be that like that was my general opinion.

Jordan:

Yeah, everybody and like honestly, even then, like everything was third person. But I I feel like I've I've heard so many authors that wrote first third person went back and changed their books to first person because all readers were like, No, no one likes to read third person, everybody likes first person. And I was like, wait, interesting. You went and changed your book based off readers saying that, like which is a lot of work to change the POV, I will say that would take that would take forever.

Rachel Tork:

Um right? I can't imagine I I think that like when I started first like seriously writing, I did more first person, but I feel like as I started to understand myself, like my preferences and what how I like to write, I guess, and like what I like to write and what I like to convey in my writing, I almost exclusively, unless the story really is like no, like not the vibe, like I almost exclusively write in third at this point. Like, like my my main series is in first person because I started writing that series when I was like younger and like when I had closer to when I first started. Um, but yeah, honestly, all of my newer projects all tend to fall in third in third person. I don't usually think about it too much. I just kind of go with what the characters in the story are asking me to do, if that makes sense. Um that sounds like crazy, like people are talking in my head, but that's absolutely what it is like to be a writer.

Jordan:

I honestly that I mean I can't relate because I don't write, but that's what I feel like most writers say is like the the characters tell me what they're gonna do.

Rachel Tork:

And I honestly feel like you to go in a different direction. Yeah.

Jordan:

It's like you think one way and they're they're like, nope, nope, psych, psych, we're going this way, we're going this way.

Rachel Tork:

No, it that's like a perfect way to describe it. Like, I like I can plot out a book all I want, but like at the end of the day, I feel like I tend to fall more into terms like of like a panther, which is like you know, you don't plant plot out your book. Um and I think it really has to just do with the fact that yeah, the characters are just like no screw your plot, screw your draft, your plot draft, like we're going this way. We're going this way. Okay. And you can't go against it because then it doesn't feel genuine to the characters.

Jordan:

So you just have to because I'm honestly like I've definitely read like books where the characters like say something, and it's not necessarily I'm never one to pick up on grammar. I suck at grammar. Like I if there's grammar errors and like grammars.

Speaker 3:

Oh my goodness. Um you know, it's like that kind of gang.

Jordan:

Um when there's grammar mistakes in a book, I'm I I don't pick up on them. But I do pick up on if a character says something that's like not out of their character or like does something, I'm like, whoa. And that will take me out of a story. Because I know sometimes people will say, like, grammar mistakes, whatever will take them out of a story. I'm like, no, no, no. Like if a character does something out of character, that will take me out of a story. And it's it's kind, it's weird. It's like a what?

Rachel Tork:

So it's like No, I feel like that's why I like dancing my stories more, honestly, is because when I start a book, I have an idea, but I often don't know the character very well yet. Um, especially like the two main characters. And I feel like part of the like fun ride of like drafting a book is getting to know your characters. And obviously, like that's why you end up having to do so many self-edits before you turn it into your editor because you're like, oh wait, that's not that's not how that would have you know, you learn things about your characters, about your world, and then you have to go back and fix it later from the beginning. Um, but yeah, it's like that's like one of the most fun parts to me about writing a book is like learning about these weird people speaking in my head and getting them out on paper.

Jordan:

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean. Um, so I do want to end this episode with two questions. I okay, I I love asking everybody this question because I think it's so cool the answers you get. But what is your favorite like book or series of all time? Like a book you would recommend to anyone and everyone. I'm I'm so sorry. You could pick a couple, you could pick a couple.

Rachel Tork:

This is such a hard one. I okay, so I feel like my answer is like it's kind of weird, and I'll explain why. But so I'll just say the I'll say the title first and then I'll give the explanation. Okay. So my favorite, probably like book of all time, just on its own, not even like the series necessarily, I really, really like From Blood and Ash by Jennifer L. Armantraut. It was one of the first yeah, yes, yes. The first book of like the main, like the like Castile and Poppy, um, their like their series. And I think I had like somewhat recently started reading like fantasy um as an adult when I read that series. It was one of, I don't know, maybe like the third or fourth like full series that I'd read after starting to read again in college. And like, is this series perfect? No, like, but there's something about that first book that I can reread that book right as many times as I want, and it's it always hits, it always hits. And I think I just there's something atmospherically about that book that really hits for me. Like, I don't know, just like I feel like the first book I can see like the colors, if that makes any sort of sense, like the texture of it is like I don't know, like again, like it's not like the writing is the best writing in the world, or like but like really slow burn of it, the slow burn of it.

Jordan:

I was like here for it. I it kind of fell off on book two, and I read book three and then stopped. But I agree with you. That first book is amazing. I love everything about it.

Rachel Tork:

And like honestly, like I have lots of book boyfriends, but Cass is like book husband, and I will always say, yeah, like he's his husband material. He really is. He is I also have my I also have a tattoo that I got in this winter, I think. Um, my first like I have other tattoos on my arm, but my first leg tattoo is is a from from Blood and Ash tattoo. And a lot of that is the reason I got that tattoo is partially because I just love the imagery in that book. Like in the first book, the imagery is just Can I ask you what the tattoo is? It's um it's like it's like Poppy with her, it's a black and white with like a little bit of red, because all my tattoos are black and white or just with red is the color. Um so it's a it's poppy, like kind of like torso up with the with the veil down. Yes, yeah, and then she's like holding the the dagger, and then there's a poppy flower. Um and so the the color is just on the flower, the the color red.

Speaker 3:

So oh, I love that. I love that. Thank you.

Rachel Tork:

Oh, it's on my thigh, so I feel like it gives like poppy, keeps her like nice on her thigh. Like oh, I love that.

Speaker 3:

I love that.

Jordan:

Oh my gosh. I really want.

Rachel Tork:

to get like book tattoos but I just don't even know what I would get and but I like want to and I'm like but I don't it it is um but I don't want to be that one person did you see okay this was like a while ago but it was somebody tattoo yes did you see all the comp the comments were um um I think the comments made it because they were like wow that's a weird way to spell resand like finish the series girl oh my gosh yeah somebody was like ooh somebody only finished book one I will say I was always very suspicious of Tamlin like not to be that person like I knew but like I always felt like his vibes were off I'm just gonna put that out there I never was like at the biggest I was kind of like hmm I he's fine I guess but like and I don't know if that was like because like when I read it and the ending of book one and like that thing that happens like the last 25% really solidified my love of Morley Gray characters because I was like fuck this person. I like honestly I think for me it was when I realized that I don't want to give it it's Avatar I feel like we can talk can I talk about a little bit yeah it's the first book exactly I think I can be keep it on down basically like something about like the curse I'll just say that.

Jordan:

I found about about that I was like that's the only reason like and you know like that one part where he sends her away and like it it was just off it was off and I was like do you really love her or do you love the idea of her like yeah like this is very much that yeah agreed agreed um okay so what is the last question I have for you is what is a future goal you have with like writing or be and slash being an author and it could be a short term or a long term goal.

Rachel Tork:

Um I've I'll give like two because I feel like I would separate this in terms of like more like a marketing author career goal and then like just writing because I feel like in my brain they're completely separate. Not completely but you often have to separate them a little bit.

Jordan:

Yeah they're separate.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah right so I feel like for I'll start with the with the marketing career goal because I feel like it's less um interesting. I would really love to get a bestseller category on Amazon. That would like an orange banner you know like I feel like that would be really fun. I mean I'd love to get on like a USA Today bestseller list too that would be super cool but that's like kind of like a someday kind of goal like would love that obviously but I'm gonna I'm starting small you know um and then my writing goal is yeah my writing goal is I really want to get into writing like romantic suspense. I feel like that genre like really intrigues me and I like my contemporary romance book is like almost in that genre like and I didn't really realize it until I started seeing people's reactions to it and I'm like wait but like what if I fully like I really like drama even in contemporary romance books like when like like like I always tell people to compare it to like Grey's anatomy because like another thing bad thing really happened to these people yes it can kind of vibe you know um and I feel like that like really works well in romantic suspense because like things just keep happening but it's also romantic. So yeah that's like a goal is like I really want to try to write a romantic suspense book.

Jordan:

Oh I feel like those are kind of like coming on the up and up I feel like I think I almost feel like dark romance dark romance is still there and it's like growing but I feel like dark romance authors have shifted to like romantic suspense and I feel like that's like kind of taking off and I think that's like really cool. I've always been like intrigued by like romantic suspense. I don't really read that many of them but like I want to read more because they are that it's I like them for the aspect of like having romance but like sometimes you're not in the headspace for a dark romance that is like the in between to give you a nice taste.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah I feel like I like romantic suspense because all these like horrible bad things could be happening and could be like crime and stuff but like it's not toxic between the love interests. Like I'm not personally a dark romance girly like obviously like if that's your thing like go off like you know go read that. But like it's not really my thing. I think just because I don't love reading about like toxic relationships, I'm I'm definitely more of like a like it can be like super emotional and like traumatizing all this stuff but like at the end of the day like the love interests are just like you know good with each other. It's really like it's not like quite like sweet but like yeah it's just like they have a good relationship I guess which I feel like they don't normally in dark romance.

Jordan:

I I yeah like kidnapping and like stalking I I yeah I like um I was reading a ton of dark romance and then I like reached this like headspace of like things happening personally that I just like could not do it. So I like did a full 180 and I was like yeah no more dark romance and I've kind of been getting back into it but I still pick the like romantic suspense over dark romance so I'm kind of in that I'll like read some of my favorite authors in dark romance but I'm I feel like I'm not I also like I think it's I'm same with you like dark romance for you like please like you do you boo boo like it's all yours like that's why people write it but I have found that I think people are now and I don't know like I feel like people are going over it's like becoming a lot and I so I like don't really read too many new dark romance authors because I they I'm like wow okay like this is too much for me too much.

Rachel Tork:

Yeah I'm just like oh and I want to say like good for you for knowing like your limits and stuff because I think that sometimes people will go into dark romance and be like not understand that about themselves maybe or not know like not really think about what their headspace is. And then people will get like really mad about it because they're like this made me trigger or upset me. And I'm like well the triggers were there girl like you need to like know yourself well enough to like maybe this know if you're good or not. Right. And it's like okay like it's every book is not going to be for every reader. I mean that's something so important to know as an author like not everybody's gonna like every book. That's just part I think that's part of what makes reading so fun is because everybody has different opinions. That's where criticisms come in and we can talk about things in like nuanced critical ways and it makes it fun. So like I don't think that's a negative thing.

Jordan:

Yeah and no I totally agree and honestly too it's like the I feel like I've mentioned it kind of too before there's like that's where the the level of consent comes in from like the reader like you're consenting to picking this book up but you can close the book at any time like you're not you do not have to finish that book like they're like it it's not it's not for like everyone and that's okay.

Rachel Tork:

And DNFing is not shameful. I don't have enough time in my life to not DNS books like right I there's yep that life is too short to read a book you do not like absolutely I will stand by that DNFing is there's nothing wrong with it.

Jordan:

Totally agree. Okay well that is it like thank you so much for coming on I do want to give you the floor to like plug yourself um when this book is or when this book when this episode is live your book to kill a goddess is out so you can get that everywhere it's on Amazon paperback and Kindle but then I also wanted to give you the floor to like plug yourself absolutely um yeah so as far as the book it will be on KU so the ebook will only be available on Amazon because it is enrolled in KU so like just wanted to put that out there.

Rachel Tork:

But you can get the paperback on other retailers um for sure um and then if you want to follow me um my handle is the same literally everywhere it's just Rachel Torque authors um so just my author name plus author at the end um same on and I'm on um Instagram and TikTok and threads Facebook but I don't really use Facebook as much. So really Instagram and TikTok are my big ones. I've I don't do people really use Facebook these days I don't know like reader groups I think like I'll use it like if I need to like be in a in a group for like an event like I'll like you know obviously use my Facebook if it's on there but like I don't really mark my mom is always like can I share about your books on my Facebook and I'm like I mean sure if you want like if you want to share my smuddy books with our neighbors like sure like whatever mom like no look whatever but that's so sweet. I love that though no my parents read all my books and I'm like I love you guys for being so supportive very sweet but like oh my god I have to separate myself from the fact that my father is reading those books.

Jordan:

Like disassociate like yeah and he's like I read your book it was really good and I'm like thanks I hope you enjoyed the five sex scenes or whatever you know this is awkward please skip chapters 21 24 90s my mom said he just skims them and I'm like thank god oh my gosh I love that well oh my gosh thank you so much for coming on the podcast Rachel like this was like the best I had so much fun talking with you and chatting all about your new release and yeah thank you so much for having me this was this was very fun I very much enjoyed with you and um I hope that that you guys like my book. I think so I think so my brain's running out of steam I know it's like it's nighttime we just gotta dinner time yeah right right um but yes thank you so much thank you