Spill the Smut
Where the books are spicy, the conversations are juicy, and the stories rarely fade to black. Each week, I dive headfirst into the delicious world of smut with the people who live and breathe it—authors, creators, and bookish babes who aren’t afraid to spill all the steamy tea. Through interviews and unfiltered chats, I'll explore everything from fan-favorites to behind-the-scenes secrets of the bookish world. This is your weekly escape into the world of steam, swoon and unapologetically bookish.
So get comfy. Pour a drink. And get ready to spill the smut.
Spill the Smut
Dark Pages & Safe Spaces with Holly Guy
What happens when the darkest corners of desire meet the written page? Author, Holly Guy invites us into her world of villains who would "burn the whole world down just to turn up the heat."
Our conversation with Holly reveals the powerful philosophy behind her work: creating spaces where women can confront trauma, desire, and darkness without apology. She brilliantly distinguishes between dark romance and erotic horror, explaining how both genres serve readers seeking to explore taboo themes within the safety of fiction.
Ready to discover why some readers use trigger warnings as shopping lists? Want to understand how fiction allows us to experience desires we'd never pursue in reality? Listen now.
Follow Holly Guy on TikTok and Instagram @hollyguyauthor.
Cover Art by: moi
Intro/Outro Music: positive vibes by nanaacom on Capcut
Contact Email: spillthesmutpodcast@gmail.com
Podcast IG: @spillthesmut TT: @spillthesmutpodcast
Jordan IG: @sipsoffiction TT: @sipsoffiction
She writes dark and deliciously taboo stories. Definitely not for the faint of heart. Some might even say her books flirt with the edge of erotic horror. But honestly, who doesn't love being both scared and turned on? Her villains aren't here to play nice. They'd burn the whole world down just to turn up the heat. Her philosophy, in her own words I write dark romance to carve out a space where women can confront their trauma, desire and darkness unapologetically and honestly. We love that. She's giving a voice to the parts of ourself. We've always been told to silence, and it's powerful. Please welcome to the podcast the one, the only, holly Guy.
Holly:Hi Hi.
Jordan:What an introduction. Oh, I just I mean, I saw. So I went on your website and I saw your like philosophy and I was like this is amazing, this needs to be included in the introduction. So that's what I did.
Holly:Oh, that's amazing. Thanks, jordan, and thank you so much for having me here. I'm actually so excited, thank you so much for coming on.
Jordan:I am I'm actually so excited for this conversation. I think it's going to be so good and I think this will be something like people are going to want to listen to. So you hear that first guys like you're going to want to listen to it. But I do like to start each episode with a highlight of your week so far. So what is the highlight of your week?
Holly:yeah, I love that question. So I actually ask myself that every single day and I always try and find three highlights. So I'm in love with this question. I love that. I love I have to do gratitude. I think gratitude is so important and I think this week it was GCSE and A-level results and I'm a special needs teacher, so, or a tutor as well, outside of writing, so I had some. My students were really really happy with their results and that just brings me so much joy because they worked hard, they worked they have to work harder than anyone else and they absolutely smashed it.
Jordan:So yeah, that's something I'm really, really excited about this week.
Holly:Well, I love that, I love. I also didn't realize so you're, you're both like a writer and a teacher. Yeah, I've got three businesses. Yeah, I juggle. I'm like a.
Jordan:I'm like constantly going to the plates oh my gosh, you like, when do you sleep, do you sleep?
Holly:No, no, I don't. That's why I'm not supposed to crave stuff.
Jordan:I'm always on edge. Sleeping sleeping you can do like when you're dead it's fine, so it's like it's just you're will dive right in. And I think the first question I want to ask you is what inspired you to start writing dark and taboo romances, erotic horror, which I saw? That and would you say those are like, similar or different.
Holly:Yes, similar. But the big difference for myself personally is dark romance kind of focuses on the relationship and also the, the sexuality side. So it's usually quite deep, dark, repressed tropes such as dubious con, non-con somnophilia for you. So dark romance really focuses on that darker side of romance, funny enough. And and then the erotic horror for me is the it's, it's horror entwined with the sex, so it's things like masked men, or it's like knife play, or it's death play, or so for me that's how I distinguish the two. But to be fair, they have so many overlapping and woven strands that, um, in the beginning I used to use them interchangeably okay, so would you say that you could write one book that encompassed all of it?
Jordan:then, if it's, or would you say they're kind of separate?
Holly:for myself I would say in all of my books they have both. So I think that in theory you can have an erotic horror and a dark romance um book in one.
Jordan:Yeah, all right there okay, okay, I get that and then. So I also kind of wanted to dive into your like publishing journey, which, in the way of like, how, how did you, how did you like, get here?
Holly:yeah, oh my gosh, that's a great question. So I think so. For myself, it was COVID, which is like the typical, everyone's like. I can write a book in COVID.
Jordan:I feel like so many books came to be in COVID. Granted, I did not write any of them, I just read them hey, it's a skill anyway.
Holly:Yeah, I to be write any of them. I just read them. Hey, it's a skill anyway. Yeah, to be fair, in the beginning of COVID, I read so many books. Stephanie Hudson has an afterlife series and I binged all 12 books in two days and I was just like thinking, breathing, living, dark romance and erotic, horror and paranormal romance. I was like I can do this myself, what I'm going to write one? Yeah, I'm going to do it and I'm going to make them go this way Because you know what it is. I was always reading and I was always thinking, oh, I wish, I hope the character does this and I hope they do that, and they never would, obviously because it's someone else's book.
Jordan:And I thought, okay, well, I'm a bit of a control freak, so I'm gonna write them the way I want them to go, which worked well. Oh, I love that because it's like it's kind of like the story that you want to read isn't out there, so you're gonna write it, so like kind of makes sense. But then how was public like? How was publishing like, let's say, your first book?
Holly:yeah, it was rough, like to be totally honest. So my I've I have probably written over 25 books now, but there's only eight available today. Yeah, so I've had a lot of and people only know about five, let's be honest. So there was a lot of learn steep learning curves, I might say in the beginning, like my first two were like 40 40 000 words in each book. So it was like tiny little thing. It was riddled with spelling mistakes. It was riddled with errors, I but it was for me, because I only wrote for me and I just wanted to publish for myself. Um, and some crazy like.
Holly:I got a review from someone called oh, actually I won't make the name out, but I got. I got a review on my first book and it said, um, okay, premise, writing style's rubbish, like just really. It honestly ripped me to shreds and it said something like author will improve with age and, mind you, I was only 19 when I wrote my first book. So I looked at that comment and out of pure hatred, I thought, fuck you, alex. So now you know his first name. I was like I promise you I'm gonna get there someday. I love. That inspired me. I was like I'm gonna grind, um, and yeah, I just kept self-publishing, self-publishing, and then didn't make any money obviously no one ever does in the beginning, um, but then I was investing my own and then I actually got an editor, because when Mr Anderson blew up a lot of the I laugh because a lot of my ot readers will cringe with me.
Holly:I didn't, I didn't originally have. I did have an editor for Mr Anderson. A publishing house tried to actually take Mr Anderson and they tried to change the premise of the book and I got really fed up and we actually parted ways because of that. Um, but sorry, I've got a lot to say on publishing houses anyway, but, um, but I'm gonna dive into that?
Jordan:yeah, I can.
Holly:I will do it yourself. Guys, if you're gonna, if you're gonna write a book, do it yourself. Don't have a publishing house. They do not have your best interests never.
Jordan:I think, see, okay, I I agree with you because I think, see, okay, I agree with you, because I think people don't understand publishing houses like you think they're in it for the books. No, they're in it for the money. Like a publishing house, I mean, they want to stay afloat, like, but they want the money. So like they're not necessarily going to be in your best interest unless your best interests lie with getting the most amount of money. So I think people sometimes forget that like, oh they're, they're here for me and it's like they're here for the money.
Holly:Yes, yes, so true, and it really is about the money and they will take your what it might. I can only speak from my experience, but they try to take Mr Anderson, and anyone who's read it knows that there's a huge plot twist in the beginning and it means a lot to me. The story means a lot to me because it's based on mental health and I've got a family member who struggles with the exact same mental health and it means a lot to me. And they tried to change that ending and I was not having it and it just became a big thing and I thought I'm not going to work with a publishing house who's going to take away the only, like the main, reason why I wanted to write the book. So yeah, so I disagreed with that.
Jordan:Yeah Well, I'm kind of actually surprised that they would want to like full. I mean, I guess in a way it makes sense. I feel like the only way you can really keep it is like, if you see, like if they see the success that it's already had, but if it's already had, but if it's like if this is in the beginning, they don't see that. So they're like, actually we think this could be better this way, but like they don't always know the success of a book.
Holly:That is the reason why I think the best thing about Mr Anderson is that when I got rid of the publisher and I did it myself and this is why I'm a really big fan of doing it myself and I had this amazing community I still have an amazing community but I went viral on a few TikTok posts and it blew me up way bigger than I ever should have and I got slandered oh my gosh, because it wasn't edited properly, because the publishing house like they said, the editor, they did this, all this, all these issues, and I just got slandered, which was a very steep learning curve as part of my publishing journey is pay an editor, pay three editors, because the first editor never gets it right. They're only human. You can't expect them to. But yeah, no, that was definitely part of my publishing journey Lots of hate comments because I didn't edit properly in the beginning.
Jordan:Okay, but was the hate comments just because of editing or was it ever content? I'm always curious with like dark romance. I feel like there's such a. I feel like it's very, very, I don't even know. This is like horrible, I don't have the words for it. But I feel like they're very much like two sides, because there's the one side that's like I love dark romance. I will read anything and everything dark. And then there's the people that are like how disgusting that you read that and write that. So I'm so curious like were there any, because it went viral? Were there any about the content?
Holly:Sure, yeah, well it's dark. Romance is like Marmite you either love it or you hate it, and it's really rare that you're in a bit of both, in both camps. And, to be fair, mr Anderson and the books prior weren't necessarily dark romance, they were erotic romance and they did have um dark romance themes like that stalker and um, like forced marriage and those kind of tropes. But I guess well, I mean because my stuff these days is so, so dark anything compared to that is like light and fluffy and meek here and sweet and innocent. So yeah, who knows?
Jordan:So are you saying too, like your books have just gotten like darker over, like the years?
Holly:Sure for sure, I'm now in pitch black like territory. Yeah, it's exciting. Oh, my goodness.
Jordan:And then okay, but then would you say too, like the erotic horror, would that be like the darker, darker things? And I know we're not gonna compare, like I know it's not dark romance, but would you label that darker than the dark romance stuff?
Holly:sure, yeah, I think I think I'd have to agree. And I actually only heard. I heard the term erotic horror from Audrey Rush, so she coined it. She's this amazing. Oh, she's brilliant. She um, she's in a dark romance. She's actually an erotic horror author. That's what she labels herself. And I remember seeing that and I was like what, what does erotic horror mean? Then I googled it. I was like, oh my gosh, that's me. So I literally just pinched the phrase.
Holly:I was like great, it's, it's perfect yeah, it's perfect, it's dark, it's a prey and it's us okay, but then I, I'm okay, I'm like so curious because like I've never heard of it before.
Jordan:But now would you so I know too you were saying like dark romance it focuses on like the relationship. But now if we're doing like erotic horror, would you say there's still like a relationship and there's a happily ever after, or no, no, yeah, for sure.
Holly:I think it definitely focuses on the relationship and a happy ever after for me. I always have to have a happy ever after. I'm too sensitive I will cry so hard. I can't, do not like sad books. It just doesn't work for me it doesn't work.
Jordan:I feel like my life is already sad enough that I'm like I want a happily ever after. In the books I've read, thank you very much. So yeah, literally same.
Holly:Yeah, no for sure. Yeah, happy endings. It can only be a happy ending, especially because I don't know if you get the same. I get book hangovers, so like I'll never see those characters again and I just have like this loss in my heart, like it's a breakup.
Jordan:And I'm just like, like I can't do this. A book is supposed to be a joy escapism. I'm coming away from it crying because it's a sad end. Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, see, it's like I. I can, I can put up with like a sad book, as long as it's a sad book in the middle towards the end, but the ending needs to be happy.
Jordan:The ending needs to put me back together again, or I don't like it, not here for that, uh, would you say to like, especially from when you started writing dark romance that has it changed like, both within the genre and like the books you've written and maybe are writing?
Holly:yeah, so definitely I think the the progression of dark romance and erotic horror over the last four or five years, from what I've seen, is we it's become more normalized, so dark romance feels a lot more mainstream, like we are openly talking about these kinks and um, yeah, like I think it's definitely become more normalized in in today's society, especially with book talk. You think about tiktok and um, yeah, I think it's definitely become more normalized in in today's society, especially with book talk. You think about TikTok and and these communities and things.
Jordan:Oh, yeah, I agree with that. Okay, so I have to ask what is your stance and I don't know, this might be like controversial, um, but what are your stance on trigger warnings?
Holly:yeah, excuse me, um, I'm a real boy, I'm hitting puberty, as it's me live on camera. Um, okay, yeah, trigger warning. So my one of my mottos in my business is or in the books is I use the trigger warning page as a shopping list and, like, I really believe that and you know what it is is that people should have consent, they should know what they're going into within a book. If there's a book with non-con and you have a trigger of non-con, that is the worst possible scenario for you to go in blind. That's so triggering. So I'm 100% an advocate of trigger warnings, although I will say in some books I don't have them at the beginning and that's something that perhaps I need to look into. Because they're so accessible on my website, on my social media, because I'm constantly throwing them at people, I perhaps don't put them in books no fair.
Jordan:I actually like that. I like the books where it's not on the main page just because I like to go into books blind. So and but I like, I think I appreciate like I don't know if it's like somewhere in the beginning being like please check my website for trigger warnings. But I'm curious because I feel like dark romance has entered this base of we are going to use the trigger warnings to market the book and I'm curious your thoughts on that, where I feel like I haven't dived into dark romance like recently no-transcript guilty of that, because I, I really my first thing is look at the triggers.
Holly:And if we're still here, great, I've been to a book, but I I think that is the most important thing there's no, I was already sad if I marketed a book as someone I think, oh my god, this is amazing, this is exactly what I want to read. And then later down the line they realize that there's a trigger in there that's really upsetting to them. I think that that would be quite disappointing for them and, um, I can understand that'd be quite frustrating. So I think my, my marketing tactic is I'm gonna show you why you should not read the book, why you can or can't read the book, and then from there, let's be friends and let's have a little.
Jordan:Let's have a little read together let's be friends and let's okay, I like that. I'm just curious because I feel like too like I think like the it's like a very, I think, dark romance. But I think you're right, it's just like grown a lot, that I think there's just like more to it that people are just like kind of like going off on it. I guess like there's just like more, and maybe that's just like more and maybe that's just because. Well, I actually think that too, because a lot of it is becoming like these dark romances which would never see the light of day in a bookstore before, covid, are now seeing the light of day, and whether that's like you see HD Carlton's books in the bookstore, you see Bryn Weaver's books in the bookstore. So I think they're kind of making I don't want to say they're like setting anything, but I think they're bringing these dark romance more mainstream and for other people to find them. And then also, then it kind of leads to Amazon and finding books that aren't necessarily in the bookstore.
Holly:Yeah, totally, I completely agree. I think definitely dark romance, erotic horror, any dark side of romance, I think, has definitely been normalized and you're right, it's now part of mainstream culture. You walk into a WH Smith's, you know you're going to find a dark romance somewhere. It's going to happen.
Jordan:Yeah, and then I think it just also shows too, because it's like clearly people are reading it. It's going in bookstores, people are buying it, people are reading it, people are liking it, and I think this also goes to show too, like I think there is a book for everybody. You just need to find the right book for you, and maybe it's a dark romance, maybe it's an erotic horror.
Holly:Like you don't know until you give it a shot Exactly yeah, no, no. I could not agree more. I think that's so true. Whenever someone says to me I get so many, I could never read a book, it's like yes, you can, you just haven't found the genre that interests you yet. You have to keep looking exactly, exactly.
Jordan:Oh, I completely agree with that. Okay, so then I have to ask so what is, what would you say is like your lightest book in level of darkness? And then, what is your darkest book?
Holly:Oh, that, as in all of the books, in order, or just the lightest and darkest.
Jordan:Just the lightest and darkest. So like what? What would be like a book that somebody could start with and what is someone that's like wants completelyhinged, depraved. I'm in dark romance, like I want, I want it yes, oh, I love that question.
Holly:Okay, so the I use the term lighter very loosely always check your triggers, always, always check my, my side. Um, I think the one that I would recommend people to start on that lighter side would be Pleased that. Make Me Kill Him Because it's got that. It's a white shoes and it's got it's a hit woman who falls in love with her target. He was a very good boy, nice boy, yeah, it's very lovely. And then she also falls in love with his bodyguard who literally just wants to kill her. So it's that good boy, bad boy, it's that nice romance mixed with the, the dark, depraved, dark side. So I would say it's quite a nice little dipping toe in to see whether you can handle dark romance in my, in my writing style.
Jordan:But yeah, sounds amazing and I'm not. I usually don't read why I choose, it's just like not something I gravitate towards, but I think I might need to read this one. That sounds right up my alley. And now what's your darkest book?
Holly:yeah, okay, my darkest one and I, and this is a pitch black one, so I honestly do not recommend this to anyone who isn't an avid dark romance reader. That's kind of my little, my warning right, and it would be um Breaking Broken. So it's one I released like a few weeks ago and, um, it's a sapphic romance about a like a sex demon who bullies this innocent virgin at school and just keeps killing her and like killing her, actually killing her over and over and over again because she hates her so much. Um, and the girl just keeps coming back, keeps coming back and then turns out they're fated mates, which is why she can't kill her. Um, and it's just. And then now the virgin, the innocent virgin's like fuck you, I'm getting my revenge. So it's like, it's just, like they're both absolutely depraved and they're so unhinged and nasty to each other. It's the most delicious erotic, horror, dark romance book you'll ever read oh, and I feel like there's.
Jordan:It's kind of exciting that like it's a sapphic romance, because I feel like there's not very many like dark romance sapphic romances. Like I think if you go in the bookstore you can find lots of like light and fluffy ones, but not very many dark ones. So like that's very exciting.
Holly:My whole thing is I try and make it as inclusive as possible for everyone to enjoy. So I do have some MM. I've got lots of white shoes, lots of polyamory, lots of this is my first sapphic one, but I absolutely loved it and I'll definitely be doing another one again, um. So yeah, I'm trying to make it as inclusive as possible and allowing everyone to be able to dip their toe into this world oh, I like that.
Jordan:Was that something that you always thought you would do? Or were you kind of like, as you're writing, you're like, oh, I'm gonna actually do this, I'm gonna do this no, for sure.
Holly:It's always so intentional and I always know three books ahead who, what time, what audience I'm gonna. I'm gonna help what audience I want to for them to be able to access dark romance, so I already know who and then then I could do research. But I can contact people and get sensitivity readers. I can really like immerse myself in the culture and make sure I'm being absolutely correct in my depiction and portrayal. And so, yeah, no, it's very intentional.
Jordan:Oh, okay, now I have to ask would you say you're more of like a pantser writer or like a plotter? I'm very curious.
Holly:Oh, that's a great question and it really, really depends on the book. Okay, it really depends on the book Because I you know what it is. When I first started writing and I hear these authors going, oh, the book just takes me, I was like, whatever, what a load of shit. Come on, you're the author, you're the one with the pen in hand. But seriously, my last few books I've had like these beautiful endings and beautiful like characters, and then I'm just like I can't actually go that way because the story wants to go a different way. So I must say I'm absolutely like a pantser or in English we'd say a bullshitter. I love that.
Jordan:A bullshitter, a bullshitter, yeah, okay. So my big question is since you talked, since your philosophy, philosophy, wow, I can't talk. Mentions like your books are like a safe space for like women to like confront or not confront, but to, yeah, confront their trauma, desires and unapologetically. So how do you think, like dark romance is a safe space for women to do this and like your book specifically?
Holly:yeah, I absolutely love that question and seriously, we could do a whole podcast on that one topic because I genuinely feel so strongly about it, um, but I think what it is is that it offers escapism and it also, ironically, offers women control. Um, I mean, it's all for all genders, but I think I specifically work with women because they're the ones with the majority. They've reached out to me and with their stories and I guess, yeah, I think you know what it is that art's supposed to disturb the calm and calm the disturbed. Right, that's a lovely. I heard that quote before and I just think it's so true that dark romance offers escapism and you know what it is.
Holly:I think there's three things. I think the first way is it allows a survivor to confront the situation again, but in a, in a controlled environment where it's, it's at a safe distance, it's. It's not real, it's fiction, it's characters, is in a book. You could put it down, you can move on if it's too much, um, but it also is like, yeah, it's in a space you can control, it's a. It's like exposure therapy right, if you're scared of spiders, they put you in a room full of spiders if you've had something bad to you and this is not for everyone. It's like exposure therapy right, if you're scared of spiders, they put you in a room full of spiders If you've had something bad to you. And this is not for everyone, it's just for a certain group of survivors who find this a good form of therapy. It can be exposure therapy, and I guess the other two things is to be totally frank, I want to write for women who have had trauma and express this trauma in terms of hypersexuality, because we know that you can either repress after trauma or you can become hypersexual, and I think that society really shames women who lean into their hypersexuality because they think you might have enjoyed the essay, or you were asking for it, or you deserve it, because your personality and your character suggests that you're always this promiscuous woman who's looking for sex.
Holly:Well, that's not entirely true. And I write for women who who are hypersexual and now have these feelings of guilt. It's like, well, how can I, how can I, how can I still fantasize about force and fantasize about control, but then that awful thing happened to me and I'm writing for women, for them to reclaim that sexuality and say, no, you are valid, you are valid, you are absolutely valid, these desires. It's a desire you wouldn't shame someone for a foot fetish. Why would you shame someone for a knife fetish? Right? I mean within moderation, obviously, consent is everything I do within safe boundaries. But this is fiction. Those, these are the words on a page. Um, no, exactly, yeah, and I, I think what it is as well is that the difference between real.
Holly:I mean there's loads of differences between real life and pages, but one of the biggest things is a survivor. I can only speak in my opinion here, but a survivor wants to be protected fundamentally. And in these books, yes, the anti-hero is depraved, yes, they're violent, yes, they can do awful things, but they're also possessive and they care for her in their own sick, fucked up way. They will kill for her, they stole her, they wanted her. There's. There's that protection of. You are wanted, you are desired, you are cherished, even if it's in a in an unconventional way, there is still that. That it's. It feels good to be wanted. In that sense. I don't know if that makes sense, I know, I think that's just my jumbled, my jumbled thoughts and how I feel about it, and I hope people resonate. Um, yeah, I just think it's that it's a safe space, it's exposure therapy and it's just. It's a place, a way for some women and people who read this like it's almost like rewriting history.
Jordan:So it's like you didn't want that then, but like in this time, in this time and space, you're reading it and this is how it's like. It's like what you're saying, like getting back the control, like I didn't have it then but I can have it now. So I want like, but you're right too, because then there's like there's the people that repress it and then, of course, also like that completely valid, you did like everything it's like very traumatic and if that's not something that you want to revisit, you do not need to. But then there's the other way of like, because I think too, like in some of dark romance, like a lot of it can also be the authors who were working out their trauma and they're putting on paper. So it's like I think there's like both forms of like, whether it's like the author or the reader is working through what happened and gaining that level of control back through consent.
Jordan:And I do think too, with consent there is like a different level of consent. There it's almost like as you pick up the book and you're opening the pages and you're starting to read, there there is that level of consent, of like OK, I'm consenting to reading this story. So, even though there might it's like a dark romance and maybe there's no consent between the characters there is consent of the reader consenting to reading what is on the pages between these two characters. So there is, like some, there is a weird that I don't want to say it's weird, it's not weird, but there is this like level of consent between the reader and the book yeah, I love that.
Holly:I think you're spot on there and I think it's really important to really really emphasize it's fictional, it's fictional, it's not. There is no. Whereas porn you're watching a woman be degraded and just violently abused in this most awful way, and that is that's not consenting. As a woman, I don't want to watch another woman get hurt. I don't want anyone get hurt, whether, like she's, she looks happy. But you're thinking, are you happy? Like you have those feelings of guilt and shame and um, and just like, yeah, you feel sad for them and I think it's really important because I always get thrown. Oh, you're no better than a, than someone in porn. You're no better than someone who's who's doing, uh, who's promoting these violent acts against women in the physical world. And I said, well, no, it's fictional. You have to understand nothing is real, it's all words. The same way, you wouldn't go for stephen king and say how dare you promote murder and how that?
Holly:you must like hangings and things.
Jordan:You wouldn't do that so, yeah, no, and it's like, and that's again, that's to like, bring back the level of consent of like, okay, maybe this, this story's not for you, so do not pick up this story, do not read this story, but it is for somebody else. Like, somebody else will want this story and somebody else will read it and like it and enjoy it and be here for it and I want to too. Like you mentioned, it's like a level of escapism. It's you can experience things that you don't want to experience in real life, but you can do it within the safety of these pages. So it's like I think to like.
Jordan:When I saw it like again, I don't read too many dark romances right now, but life got too dark and I was I was liking being able to read these things that, like, I would never be able to do in real life, like I would just be scared, shitless. But to be able to experience it within these pages of a book, like it fed that desire I had of like wanting to experience something like that. Whether that it could like I'm just something like that, whether that it could like I'm just thinking, like you brought up knife play, like I was reading, like I don't have you ever read KV Rose Her these Monstrous Ties?
Holly:Oh, yes, I have on ebook.
Jordan:yes, yes, I love that series, the Unsainted series. It's like one of my favorites and her, like she has knife play in there and I'm I was here for it because it was something that, like, I could experience in within the safety of these pages. And I think there is that level of consent and safety which you're bringing up to like it's a safe space because I, I think I would pee my pants if, like, my husband brought out a knife and was like, okay, get ready. Like I would pee my pants and I'd run away screaming, but like I can experience it within these pages. So it's like one of those.
Jordan:Like it's it is a safe space for those desires too, because, you're right, it's like something and like that's the thing is, you could literally have a desire for anything and you will find a book with that and you can experience it without actually having to experience it. And like the same with like blood play too, like I get a paper cut and I'm like fainting, like I I can't do that like, but like, if it's in a book, I'm like yeah, yeah real life no like but that, and I think that's okay.
Jordan:So it's like I book, I'm like, yeah, real life, no, like but that, and I think that's okay. So it's like I think that's one of those things that if there's an honestly to that, that that goes very dark, but if you don't want to go very dark, there is a book for you. If there's something that you're curious about and you want to like I don't know this month was was a few years ago, maybe in like 2021, 2022, like masks were like a big thing and like every book had mask play. So it was like that was another thing of like people wanted to experience that and, granted, like I mean, you could also get a mask and have your partner put on a mask, but I think too like, whether you wanted to try that or not, you could try it in a book first.
Holly:Yeah, you know what you've actually hit the nail on the head there. That's so important. You can explore kings safely because I mean, in the olden days you'd see it on form, so it's already not, not in the right space. And then you would go and you would try and try it out with someone and you wouldn't know how, like you wouldn't know the boundaries, you wouldn't know. Or am I into this? And if you're halfway through anything, oh, this isn't for me, you'd feel. Oh, we've got that awkward anxiety about it's so unsafe stopping. Yeah, exactly, it could be so unsafe in the past and I do think the books have like, uh, porn books, as I call them, but I think that's not, it doesn't help my face, but erotic books. They really help you explore, as you rightly said, explore your sexuality, explore your kinks in a safe, controlled environment. And if you don't like it, you close the book and you walk away exactly, exactly.
Jordan:So there is that level of like maybe and maybe it's something. Like you start the book and you're like yes, I'm here for it, I want to try, and that's a. I was looking for the word kinks. You want to try this kinky, want to do it, like yes, and then maybe you find out like no, it's not for you. And then you just like close it, but I know too, like when, why choose? Got really big and reverse harems, like people were. It's like, yes, like I wanted to read about a girl getting banged by five people, but I do not want to be banged by five people, but like I think it's one of those things. It's again. It's like it's reading something to your level of what you want to either try, desire just to experience, like within the pages of a book, 100%, yeah, as we just like keep going on about kinks and all that stuff. So what, what would you say are like some of the kinks in your books?
Holly:oh, all of them. I feel like I've done like nearly all of them. I literally go through Kink List and go, oh, I'll try that one in the next one. I mean in I think it was, it's Nympho Notes, and so I had a few readers message me going could you please, could you please explore water sports? I want to see, I just want to experience it.
Jordan:So water sports is like this, basically, oh, my God, I was like what are you talking about? So like a little golden shower? Yes, that's the only thing I know. That's that's the only thing I know, but only because can I only know of that? Because of you like the show on one of the seasons, like the guy like likes to eat on, and so he mentioned golden showers and that's the only thing I know about I love it.
Holly:Well, yeah, it's very similar and I so I had a few readers saying to me oh, could you, could you please put water supports in it? I was like, okay, cool, I mean it's not for me, but a lot of things aren't for me, so I'll figure it out anyway.
Jordan:I'll figure it out. I promise I'll figure it out. Do a bit of research.
Holly:I was like this is a PSA. Has anyone ever been pissed on? Could you please tell me what it feels like? But yeah, so I I wrote the scenes and I I like to write scene by scene and I like to write all the dirty scenes when I fit them in and I do it all like that anyway. So, and I like to write multiple scenes with a kink, because then I like better. Anyway, it wasn't until I read it through the whole book. I was like I've included three fucking piss scenes. They're going to think I've got a kink. Now People are going to think, oh, here we go. Holly Guy, the water sports girl.
Holly:I was like, oh, so I took one out, but I did leave two because I was pretty proud of them both.
Jordan:Oh my goodness Fair than both. So yeah, oh my goodness uh fair. I mean there's a kink for everybody. So, like you, just you just gave somebody a kink that would want water sports, golden showers. Not gonna lie, I've, it's not. I've never read any with that there you go.
Holly:No, now you've got it. Now you can start nympho notes. That's why you need to start. Jump straight to the dark end.
Jordan:I know, right, deep end, like let's go Sink or swim. I do like to end each episode with like two questions. So I want to ask you, what is the spiciest book you've written? And it doesn't necessarily have to be like the most amount of spice scenes, but like whatever you consider like the spiciest book that you've written.
Holly:And then I want one, two that you've read the spiciest that I've ever written would probably be nymphonite, definitely. I mean, it's literally got the god of lust and the god of sin fucking a woman in a sex club. Yeah, I think that actually might be it.
Jordan:Yeah, yeah, no, I think that would be it too.
Holly:Yeah, I think, although we shouldn't. It's also set in a sex club with three brothers and a woman, so I think that they're pretty much on par with the spice there.
Jordan:No, no, it has to be nympho nose, because it's really dark, because it's, it's intense now would you say there's like a lot of spicy scenes or do you think it's like, just because we're like it's in a sex club and it's the god of lust and there is definitely loads of sex scenes, and I think it's the intensity as well.
Holly:It's like the amount and also the intensity. So yeah, okay, okay.
Jordan:Now what about one that you've read that's not yours?
Holly:you know what it is is that whenever I don't know about you, I read books on my kindle and I never look at the front cover, all the, I just click on one and then just read it. Do you know what I mean? So I'm like I could tell you about a thousand book plots, but the I think well, I've read with the titles I don't. I'm like I could tell you about a thousand book plots, but the I think the titles I've got no idea. It was one I read recently. Um, I don't know the author, but the title's called Honeysuckle, honeysuckle.
Jordan:I feel like that title sounds so familiar, but I don't could not tell you the author either. But I also like, I feel like I live sounds so familiar, but I don't could not tell you the author either. But I also like, I feel like I live in book covers. So it's like if I see a book cover, I'm like oh, I got that.
Holly:Sure, oh, I've got it here January rain, oh, January rain.
Jordan:It's good, it was dark there there was a somnophilia scene and I just was like, oh my gosh, it was really. It was beautifully written, it was really well written. Um, so, yeah, probably Honeysuckles by Jen Rubin. Wait, what, what? What is the? So I forgot, I don't know what you just said but what is that?
Holly:Oh, my goodness, let me teach you. So somnophilia I love it, by the way, not not myself in my books. I should really clarify, because I've done this before on a podcast. When I love and I said something, everyone's like what since? When I mean I'm inviting, I'm inviting, um. So somnophilia is like it's sleep sex, but it's consenting, so saying I consent for you to wake me up before I say so, to perform sexual activities or to do something sexual near me, like it's their fetish that they like to be unconscious basically, oh yeah, but that's also like the thing too.
Jordan:It's like whether it's like I mean, in this case, it's like the characters like they consent to it. So it's like, yes, I like this, which I definitely have read stuff about like that, I just did not know, that was it. But I think too it's like there's consent of the character being like this is what I like, so please do this sure, sure, I will say in erotic horror there might not be obvious consent.
Holly:I'll be very, I'll make it very clear. I know in nymphonotes there's not obvious consent. So I think it really it depends how dark the somnophilia is okay fair.
Jordan:But now here's my question with the characters. If that's something that happens, does like the character like wake up or become conscious and they're like mad or angry that that happened, or are they like?
Holly:I really enjoyed that oh, that's a great question. Yeah, waking up and going, that was banging, that was great different.
Jordan:So, even though there might not be like a level of consent, I think knowing that the character enjoyed it, it's like that's different, I think when there's like I'm not saying that the character can't not enjoy it and still be a good story, but I think that makes a difference, like in my mind, than if it was like a character that was like I've just been like violated, you know sure, absolutely.
Holly:I think that's a really great distinction.
Jordan:Yeah okay, and then? So the last question I have is what is one underrated book that no one is talking about, but totally should be talking about it?
Holly:you know what it is, is that I feel like because I'm so obsessed with the book I feel like it always pops up my on my feed, so I feel like loads of people are talking about it. But I must say Audrey Rush is a fantastic author and I took a lot of like, um, lots of inspiration from her. In the beginning, again, she taught me erotic horror and I think, yeah, it has to be one from her and I think it might be skin, skin.
Holly:Yeah, it's like skin, like s-k-i-n s-k-i-n or okay, yeah, skins, sorry with an s um, it's just, it's brilliant. And also it's such it's so fucked up like the actual plot of it is so unhinged, even even I took a step back and I was like that's crazy. So but I did read it a while ago. I've read the first one. It's had a second edition since, but it's yeah. I think that's an underrated book in the erotic horror industry environment.
Jordan:Wait, can you? Can you tell me like the plot?
Holly:Yeah, okay, oh God, it's so unhinged. So basically, it's like this company that that work for, like they create dolls, like dolls, and it's like actual human women. Dolls, dolls. Like it's like human women, but like they not. They're.
Holly:They're not human, they're just like body okay, oh gosh so you know, like, if you think about like ai girlfriends, ai boyfriends, it's like that, but there's actually physical. So they create from actual human flesh, they create like women and then obviously, these men are buying the women to. I mean, if, for my memory, it follows three different men or three different storylines of three different people who have bought a doll from this doll company and it talks about their experience with the doll, um, yeah, it's so enhanced, it's like skinning, it's like skinning people and like, oh, yeah, it is, it is crazy okay, I had to look.
Jordan:I okay, fair, I had to look up. So have you ever read the two, four, six, nine, zero by a, a dark?
Holly:two, four, six, nine, zero a dark I haven't, no, okay.
Jordan:So like I've heard about this one, which I actually thought this was interesting because I saw this in my bookstore in like the horror section, but I'm pretty sure it's erotic horror and I don't fully know what it's about. I'm pulling it up, yeah, I think it's like something about this like girl being kidnapped, but I'm, I'm, I'm really bad. I should, honestly, I should have looked it up more, but I just it popped into my head when you talked about yours, so I was just curious if you had read this one. But I thought it was interesting because, like I've heard it's, it's like everybody that reads it says it's like the darkest book they've ever read.
Holly:Oh my gosh, you've just given me my new read for tonight. Hang on, I'm writing this.
Jordan:That's that's gonna be straight on kindle. We're gonna end this. I'm immediately diving into that, yeah, and like I I have no idea like what it's about, but like it has like crazy like ratings and like reviews and stuff. But I think too, like I think it's something about like a slave in a way, because I think that's her like number. I am so sorry to anybody listening because I don't really have much else, but see, I'm like the type of person that I love to go in completely blind. So if there's like a book that's like kind of on my radar, I will avoid reading anything about it because I'm like no, I can't, I can't, I can't look at it.
Holly:I like that. I like that. That's. That's true. I used to do that exact thing. You know what it's what I did about you, but I predict things too easily. I always start reading a book and I know how it's going to end, so I don't like reading the blurb, because I can probably figure out the entire plot that's going to happen.
Jordan:Yes, there are only certain authors that I like to try to like predict what I think will happen, just because I know I usually don't predict it, and if I do I get very excited because they're like so hard to predict. But otherwise I'm just like trying to enjoy it for the ride and I'm not trying to like guess, because then same I get really disappointed and I because I guessed it and I'm like I don't want to guess it. So I just like kind of like avoid thinking about it, just like have a good time, I love it, okay. So I I okay. Is there anything else that you want to say before we like wrap episode up?
Holly:no, not really. I just want to say thank you so much like I'm so honored to be here and that you invited me and we're here like I'm so, oh my god, no more, thank you like I'm so happy you like came on and talked and we talked about dark romance and this is like so exciting, okay.
Jordan:Well then, I want to. Okay, where can people find you like? Instagram, tiktok, maybe your website? Give me all the deets yeah, I love it.
Holly:So I'm Holly Guy, author on TikTok and Instagram and threads. My website is booksbyhollyguycom, I believe. Um, and the best way to find me is through my Etsy. Like I will, I sign everything and I throw so much free shit in each of my signed copies and I really love connecting my readers and talking to them. So my Etsy chats are full. We're actually just chatting to readers as well, um, so, yeah, etsy and Instagram are probably. We're actually just trying to read those as well. So, yeah, etsy and Instagram are probably where you're going to find me the most active.
Jordan:Let's say, oh, okay, wait. So then, what's your Etsy shop? Is it just Holly Guy?
Holly:Holly Guy also, I'm rubbish at this. Go to my site, everyone.
Jordan:You'll find it. You'll find it, just find me. Okay, well, thank you so much for coming on. You'll find it. You'll find it, just find me. Okay, well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much for having me.