Spill the Smut
Where the books are spicy, the conversations are juicy, and the stories rarely fade to black. Each week, I dive headfirst into the delicious world of smut with the people who live and breathe it—authors, creators, and bookish babes who aren’t afraid to spill all the steamy tea. Through interviews and unfiltered chats, I'll explore everything from fan-favorites to behind-the-scenes secrets of the bookish world. This is your weekly escape into the world of steam, swoon and unapologetically bookish.
So get comfy. Pour a drink. And get ready to spill the smut.
Spill the Smut
The Art of Securing Physical ARCs with Lissa
Ever wondered how book influencers get those coveted Advanced Reader Copies months before release? Lissa pulls back the curtain on the mysterious world of ARCs, publisher relationships, and the authentic journey of a multi-genre bookstagrammer. Whether you're an aspiring book influencer or simply curious about what happens behind those perfectly staged bookstagram photos, this episode offers both practical wisdom and heartfelt encouragement. Lissa's parting advice? Remember why you started sharing books online in the first place, and don't let algorithm anxiety steal your joy.
Connect with Lissa - IG: @notesfromliterature TT: @notesfromliterature
Cover Art by: moi
Intro/Outro Music: positive vibes by nanaacom on Capcut
Contact Email: spillthesmutpodcast@gmail.com
Podcast IG: @spillthesmut TT: @spillthesmutpodcast
Jordan IG: @sipsoffiction TT: @sipsoffiction
You might know her from her bookstagram. She's also on TikTok. Her account is notesfromliterature, where she reads it all, from literary fiction and poetry to romance and even dark romance. She's all about encouraging readers to embrace whatever they love, and that kind of bookish freedom is exactly what we adore her for. Oh and did I mention she's also effortlessly chic too. Please welcome to the podcast, lisa. Hi, I'm so sorry. What an intro I like butchered that. I'm so sorry, no that was great.
Lissa:I'm out here like fangirling. It's like, oh my god, that was like the best intro ever. Oh my gosh. Well, hi, Jordan.
Jordan:Thanks for having me me, thank you so much for coming on, like I've been like as soon as I like announced well, I didn't. As soon as I decided myself that I wanted to do this podcast, you were, like one of the first people I reached out to because I wanted to have a conversation with you so freaking badly and I feel like we have these conversations, naturally just us anyways, it would be so cool.
Jordan:Right, I feel like, and like too for the people that are listening I've like met Lisa in real life, in person, like, actually, like physically, like I could hug her and I smelled your perfume. Yes, we were like that close, there was no screen in the way, but I feel like our conversations were so organic and nice and flowing-ingly that I think it was like my mind was like you were perfect for this.
Lissa:Well, I can't get over the intro. That was so good.
Jordan:Except I like butchered it. The thing is is like I just want to point out, I practice these intros before I read them on the podcast, but I don't know what it is. As soon as I go on the podcast, I like totally blank. It's like I'm standing in front of like a crowd of like 500 people and I like can't talk, and I like totally blank. It's like I'm standing in front of like a crowd of like 500 people and I like can't talk and I like nervous sweat and I'm like why, why do I do? This Makes no sense.
Lissa:I feel like that's normal, though that's such a normal reaction. It's like when you give a speech and you practice and it's memorized and you're just and all you have to say is like your name and somehow you just can't.
Jordan:True, but like it makes sense. If you're like public speaking in front of like a crowd on podcast, that's like recorded. This isn't even live and I'm still butchering it.
Lissa:I think you did great.
Jordan:Thank you. Thank you, lisa. I think you did great. Thank you. Thank you, lisa. Okay, no, I like to start off every episode with a highlight of your week so far.
Lissa:So can you tell me your highlight of your week so far? Yes, this one's so easy. I got to see with my own eyes and listen to my favorite author speak about his upcoming release, which was the Emperor of Gladness. So I got to see Ocean Vuong speak eloquently, silently, emotionally, I think. I had tears, actually the whole time the friend that drove me there was recording me. It was really embarrassing because I was crying, I just had tears in my eyes, because he writes these books and then he speaks, and it makes so much sense. Why, in my eyes? Because he writes these books and then he speaks. And it makes so much sense why he writes the way he writes, because he can just speak gracefully and intellectually and he's a professor. It all just makes sense. I felt like I was getting pinched over and over again and that's why I was crying.
Jordan:What is his like the most recent book about? Like I don't is he does he write like literary fiction. I know who he is only because of you and you posting about him, but I actually have no idea what he writes or anything.
Lissa:Yeah, so he's actually originally a poet. So he's actually originally a poet. So he's written three. One is not very known, but two are very popular. It was Night Sky with Exit Wounds, and then Time is a Mother. So he's a poet and he finally debut On Earth.
Lissa:We're Briefly Gorgeous, oh okay, I definitely remember you talking about this one Heavily influenced by his own dating life, his poverty, upbringing and his mother and grandmother. So everything, is very everything he writes, as he stated, is about his life, and this recent read, the emperor of gladness, is the first book he's writing for us, not for his family, not for anybody. So he says he's writing alongside us and it's basically a book about his life or his time. He used to work at Panera Bread, so this book is a different. I forget what it's called. I'm spacing, but it's called Home Market, home Goes or something, and it's a fast food joint and it's just basically. I don't know if anyone has watched the show the Bear, where they're in a restaurant.
Jordan:Yes, I've seen. Only I've only seen the first season. I think I haven't seen the first is all you need.
Lissa:It is basically the emperor of. It isn't like a huge restaurant, it's just like a quick fast food joint quick in and out. It's funny, it's dark, it's a bunch of people who are poor and it it's. It was hilarious. I was shocked. I'm like, okay, mr Vong, you're out here having jokes, you funny, I see you, I see you, I'm putting down. Anyways, that was like the ultimate highlight, I think, of my whole six months or five months.
Jordan:I mean that is really cool Because, like I think too, didn't like the publisher reach out to you and like send you tickets.
Lissa:Shout out Penguin Press. Yes, and I got an autographed book too.
Jordan:I feel like that you are the person that like deserves that Like. I feel like you've been hyping his books up for so long that like no one deserves that or this like more than you like. I know I was so, so grateful.
Lissa:I don't know how many times I told Penguin Press thank you very much. Like they sent me the ARC, they sent me a PR package with a hat and stickers and then they sent me to see him live. I was so grateful and the gratitude was overflowing.
Jordan:And that well, also like not to be like a stalker or anything but like didn't like your arc also get lost at some point. So then, like they had to, either like they found it and sent it again, or something like that. I feel like I remember that.
Lissa:Okay, yes, you know I kind of. I have a soft spot for many stalkers.
Jordan:I'm not a stalker, I swear, lisa.
Lissa:I'm just obsessed, I just remember that you're, I stole it.
Jordan:No but, I went and took it out of your mailbox Cause I didn't know who he was.
Lissa:but I needed it. No, it actually did so. They sent it, but then I never got it. So I reached out to them, politely, because I needed, like, out of all the arcs that I need this year, that's the one. That's the one I needed, and I have had arcs be lost before, like Emily Henry's. The latest one, happy place, got lost, didn't reach out to them, but this one I'm like, I need it in my hands. Understandable, understandable, yes, and I got it in my hands.
Jordan:But that's so cool. Like I think that's so cool and it kind of like segues into like what I like hope our conversation is of, like how to like get arcs, but like I think that's so cool that you were able to reach out and instead of them being like sorry, like it's lost, they actually sent you another one. Like I don't know if they found that one, I don't know if you can find the lost packages or if they like actually sent you another one, but I think it's so cool that, no matter what they did, like they got you your copy yes, I know I felt really really happy and grateful because I didn't know that was me taking a shot.
Lissa:I mean, for all they know, I felt really really happy and grateful because I didn't know that was me taking a shot. I mean, for all they know, I got it and I wanted another one. For some reason, I don't know why, I would want to, but yeah, no hesitation, sent it to me it was really nice.
Jordan:That's literally so nice. So I want to ask you, okay, how do you apply for these arcs?
Lissa:Like, how do you go about getting arcs from publishers and like yeah, publishers, yeah, and I feel like this is such a popular question that everyone has. Everyone who reads books has a book. Instagram, instagram. You wonder how people are getting these physical advanced reader.
Jordan:Yes, that's, and that's what I mean too by arcs. I'm glad you said that, because I do mean physical, even though it's arcs can be like digital they could be through net galley but I'm I want to know physical yes, and I prefer physical.
Lissa:I will take it if I have to Like indie. I know the indie publishers they can't, so they normally will send it. That's okay, you do you, I will take that and it's specific authors I would allow, like a digital article. But I am a physical book girl so I feel like there is no blueprint, I mean at least for myself. No one taught me how to do this.
Lissa:I was 100% self-taught. I taught myself these things. No one gave me advice and I guess the way I started is I think I Googled it because you know, people just want the recipe. They're like oh my gosh, tell me step-by-step what to do. But I was like proactive and Googled it myself and I go how do you write an email to a publishing house?
Lissa:And then there was this lovely blog I found I don't remember Shout out to whoever's blog I saw, and it was this detailed email of how to structure the email and two which I'll tell you how I structured it. But two, I was proactive and I had to go myself and search the publisher, the correct publisher email, which sometimes you can get wrong. But I had to do that myself and you got to put in the work, you have to go and put in the. No one's going to give you the email unless, like, if you're my homie I'll give it to you. But and I know we're homies and you're not just trying to, you know, facilitate, I don't know You're not just using me for that.
Lissa:Yeah.
Jordan:I don't want to, if you're my friend, I'll give it to you Like we've done that before, yeah, but I don't want, like I, I know what you mean. I've definitely had people like sliding my DMs, being like random things, of like well, how do I get this? And I'm like or can I, can you give me this? And I'm like no, like I'm all for not gatekeeping. I am all for not gatekeeping, but if I don't know you.
Lissa:And this is our first conversation interaction.
Jordan:And yeah, we're not even. It's not even like a hi, how are you Not that it has to be that?
Lissa:but like I don't know, they don't do well with like demands. Yes, I mean, let's move with kindness. I can tell when someone's kind and it's. You know, I don't want to hold this back from people, but you're also not going to be out here and like give it to me. How do I get this? What email? Or they'll'll be like oh, what publishing house? Oh, and then what did you say to them? I'm like, oh my gosh, you know I should just drop another email.
Jordan:Yes, exactly Like I. I totally understand people that are like, well, how do I go about this? And then you give them like, okay, hey, like just like what you said right here, like I email the publisher, like here, even here is like the blueprint of the email, like make sure you have this, this and this, but not telling them like what to write, like I am all for that, I'm all for that.
Lissa:And that's so true.
Jordan:But like when you start demanding like every step of the way what to do, like that's where I'm like okay, I think some of this can be like your own problem solving skills should come in.
Lissa:Yeah, which, like, like I said, and meant people want everything to be done easy, like they just want, boom done. They want, they don't want to put in the work because they think they deserve it for some reason. But I earned this, like I went out of my way. Like no one can tell me for a fact that I stole someone's you know blueprint, whereas I created my own by being proactive, and then I maybe I asked someone along the way, but I don't even think I did that, I just I wouldn't. That's not who I am, but yeah, so I I think, like the main thing is, you know, finding the correct publishing house and most of the time, if you send it to the wrong publishing house, they're kind enough to like redirect you to the right email, the right publishing house. So it's just trying to find the right email. And then in the email you know, you have to put in the correct title and author and let them know you're requesting a review copy in the subject line. And then you have to have, you know, introduce yourself, let them know your Instagram account, your name, and then what book you want. Underneath, let them know some facts.
Lissa:Why do you want this book? Oh, it's because you know I love. Let's, for example, nisha Tooley shout out. We love Nisha Tooley's artifacts, the series, and I want your new spinoff, which was the rom-com or not spinoff her new genre rom-com. And so you would draft that email letting them know you love this author. And then, underneath, just put your stats, put your Instagram followers, how many times you post a day, tiktok. Put your good reads, the links. It doesn't have to be crazy, just put the links, let them know your followers for each account. And then underneath and this is so important underneath, put your mailing address. Put your mailing address. This is the number one thing I recommend, because most of the time the big publishers, they don't have time to reply, they just don't, they don't talk to you?
Jordan:yeah, they don't. They don't answer no, yeah. But I also have to say too, because, like I know for myself, like especially Nisha, like I, I remember we got the arc for the third book in the artifacts of Arano series which I, like I, oh, it's out there, but I covet that book like with my whole heart because, like also the favorite, my favorite book. But I think too, like I think a lot of people have like the misconception that, like every time you reach out like you think you will get a book, most of the time I don't get a book. Like when I've reached out, like I, because I then like talking about her new rom-com, not Safe for Work.
Jordan:I did the same thing that I did for the third book in the Artifacts of Arano series, but I didn't get it. I didn't get like the. No one got back to me. I never got the book. So I think a lot of people only see what is on like Bookstagram or BookTok, of like oh my God, everybody's just getting all these arcs. But I think people need to know that, yes, maybe like somebody got an arc, but they also got like five rejections from five other publishers or about five other books.
Jordan:Like there's not all, like you don't necessarily get every book that you ask for yeah, despite your followers as well, it doesn't really matter sometimes no, and that's true too, because, like I think, sometimes I get like discouraged in a way, because I'll like reach out and not saying that I like put so much into like my follower account, but then when I see somebody else get it and then they have like less followers, I'm like, oh, okay yeah, that's cool.
Lissa:Like you just don't know what's going through the mind of the marketing person who's in charge of this. You don't know, and sometimes you just have to shoot your shot. Yes, like, oh, what's the worst that can happen? You don't get a reply, you don't get the book On to the next. There are so many books out here and maybe some we don't get and some we do, and I'm just it's not something like I'm going to sleep, like lose, sleep over. Sure, when I see someone else getting it, I'm going to like visibly, like squint and be like okay, like I see it.
Lissa:Okay, I see it. But the thing about me is I will prioritize, like if a publishing house slash author sends me a physical copy and it's a book I really want to read. And the thing about me is I will prioritize, like if a publishing house slash author sends me a physical copy and it's a book I really want to read and like, let's say, I have 10 books I really want to read and I only get four of those sent to me. I'm going to prioritize those and I'm going to review, I'm going to post, I'm going to shout out because they took the time to send it to me and all the other ones I wanted to read and missed out because he didn't send me a book time to send it to me and all the other ones I wanted to read and missed out because he didn't send me a book.
Jordan:If you want Lisa to review it, send her the book like because I care it means a lot no, it's true. Except, too, like I've definitely had, like some publishers send me like books and I'm like I didn't ask for this.
Lissa:Oh my God, that happens to me too. And then I.
Jordan:but then I feel awkward and I'm like I don't want to read it.
Lissa:And I sometimes pretend I don't get them and then I'll. I'll leave them at the free libraries because I didn't ask for it, like first of all, it's like random genres. Like sometimes they'll send me horror. You know how I feel about horror. There's no way. There's no thrillers already. No, thank you very much, and that's why I read dark romance, like that's my horror limit.
Jordan:Just that, just dark romance, but it's understandable. Like I'm not. I like have read some horror, but it's like not my go-to genre, but like I just know too, I'm. I'm like my thought process is is like I mean, I guess it comes back to what you were saying, like we don't necessarily know what's going through, like marketing's head, but I'm like you didn't have anybody else you could have sent this to.
Lissa:I know Like I could redirect you to a horror.
Jordan:you know, account like account yeah, yeah, please send it to them like.
Lissa:I'm sure they'll read it and love it, like I love genres. But there's some that you know, just know, just know. And also you know why I always think they just sent it. They sent because I'll get some books that I never I know for a fact. I never approved.
Jordan:Thank you, yes, same, and I'm like, and it will be like arcs too, and then I feel guilty.
Lissa:Bad, so bad. I'll Google the author and I'll be like oh okay, it's, it's a good author. You know, this is their fifth book. I feel really bad. Now it's just sitting here.
Jordan:I did get one and I read it because, like, I felt guilty and I'm like it's okay.
Lissa:You're really good about reading arcs, though You're really good, I like try.
Jordan:If it's a finished copy and a publisher send it, sends it. I'm like this is fair game. I can read this, like whenever, but when it's an arc, I like feel guilty if I don't read it.
Lissa:I remember a while ago, because I didn't used to be an arc girly until wait what I feel like, what? Yeah, no, I was a finished copy, like I was a new lit fic girly, and once I started building my favorite authors, then I became an arc girly. Okay, that makes sense, because before I didn't know my taste yet and I was going through, like I was going through authors that already had a plethora of books Whereas I was the new ones ones. I was developing my new taste does that make sense?
Lissa:okay, I think so, I think so, like Ocean Bong, this is my first like I got his finished copy for Time as a Mother, which is his poetry collection, and then this is the first time I've gotten an advance from him particularly and it.
Jordan:And wasn't this one signed, or was just the finished copy?
Lissa:I got two, so I got the arc and then I got when I went to the event. I got the signed one. I know Way to rub it in, Lisa.
Jordan:Sorry, no, as you should, as you should, okay. So then this kind of like leads to like how do you build relationships with publishers? Because I'm thinking is this like something separate you do, versus like applying well, I'm assuming applying for arcs, and this is separate but like how do you build a relationship with a publisher?
Lissa:yeah, I think the way it started well first started via dms, because sometimes, like, who's in charge of the social media marketing is very different from the people who are in the office getting the emails directly sent into their inboxes. Which is what I've learned Because I've gotten especially by Henry Hold. They contact me via DM and then they'll send me an email and then I'll have to remind them oh, I was already contacted via email. They should be sending it to me. So I, you know that's when I learned, oh, I need to just say yes to both because I don't know if I'm going to get it or not. But it started with direct messaging and that was a lot easier for me because you, I, would reply back.
Lissa:And then the thing with with building a relationship with them is when they send you a book, post about it, even if you're not gonna read it. You're starting out. Post about it. Tag them, blow them up, doesn't matter. If you create a book stack, add the book. All they wanna see is that you appreciate that their book is out there, even if you're not gonna read it anytime soon. Post about it, put it in a cute little photo, put it on your stories, get in their DMs, let them remember your handle, your Instagram handle. You're constantly attacking them. So then when they get a new book, they're like, oh, this person keeps tagging us and they remember you from the last book they sent you and they're going to think of you and then DM you again.
Jordan:Ooh, and that makes sense.
Lissa:Yes, I tag them on everything, even if it's a book they didn't send me, and I will tag that on everything.
Jordan:So just like overall, like tag them for like all the books, blow them up.
Lissa:Because you don't know and they say that too. Yeah, they say that too all the time, cause they might miss a story. They probably weren't active or they probably didn't see your. You know, they're probably tagged by, let's say, maybe a hundred people a day. Let's just say that to be dramatic. They're probably going to not see your posts. But if you're constantly and the one time they opened their DMS, once they opened their DMS, you can get in there at all times because they opened it You're either in their general box or in their primary, it doesn't matter, you're in their inbox. So the more you post them, the more they'll see you. Yeah, I learned the hard way. Like Ocean Bong, he. He doesn't follow me, he's never replied to anything, but he sees my stories when I tag him because he's seen it once. He's seen them all or he will see them all. I know I'm like Ocean Bong. I love you. He's like this girl, it's always tagging me.
Jordan:No, he loves it.
Lissa:And then with emailing, what I've learned is the more I request, like especially Tor Tor Publishing, which is where Olivia, my favorite author, olivia Blake, she is.
Jordan:Sorry, I just have to do a side note. I have yet to like read any book from like start to finish, but I think I've bought every single one of them, one of her books, because of you. Like I go to the bookstore and I'm like, oh, I don't have this one, but Lisa's talked about it, like let me go take it home. But I have yet to actually read it okay, but anyways, sorry, you can continue.
Lissa:I thought you read one for my enemy okay.
Jordan:So I took it on vacation with me so I read half of it but then I like put it down because then it was vacation but I, I, I was loving it. But now that I've I've like it's been like over a year, I know I need to like, just like, yeah, like I need to start over. But then I bought the audio book but I have yet to actually read it or listen to it, so like I'll slide in your dms once I do, but until then it's so good it's good okay okay, this is I'm gonna bully Jordan from now on.
Jordan:She needs to read them, honestly, though I I think I might need it, but what you were saying, too, is like Tor. She's published by Tor.
Lissa:Yes, so I request all of her books every all the time. So that's another author where I introduced myself to her backlist and she was an indie author at this time recently got picked up because the Atlas six went viral and it's like her trilogy, and so she got picked up and then immediately after that they picked up alone with you in the either. Then they picked up masters of death one for my like. They just picked up all her books and because of that I wanted I started requesting them because I already knew I loved her. So that's another, I guess, ocean ball example where I had to get familiar with her writing, loved her, and now I request everything Like same with Sally Rooney. Read her backlist. The newest in her mezzo requested it. So I feel like this past year is the first year like 2024, maybe towards the end of 2023, I finally started getting advanced reader copies.
Jordan:When did you start your bookstagram? When did you start your bookstagram 2021?
Lissa:okay. So it was like a good decent amount before you were really getting advanced reader copies. Yeah, yeah, like I would only ever get finished copies, oh, or they would reach out to me like, for example, like tour now that's how I was able to get runix's enigma, because they know my taste in books that they emailed me and it and I was like, I think I like I think I screamed, oh, look at this email. I'm like, oh, my god, what the heck?
Jordan:but that's, I was making a face. I was so jealous I was. So I was so jealous of everybody, but like I reached out and I asked for it, I'd never got a response and I have like yet to get in touch with anybody at tour like overall, or like bramble, bramble, yes, and so yeah, yeah you're right.
Jordan:Bramble. So I just like I'm praying one day I can get like an ARC of a Runix book, but granted, I think she only had those two. And now I think she's like kind of going hybrid, but that would be the dream one day. But I was so jealous of all the people posting about ARCs for that book and I was like way to rub it in everybody but for that book. And I was like way to rub it in everybody but like secretly, I'm also like happy because, like I know too, like we like buddy read gothicana, which honestly is still my all-time favorite book number one.
Lissa:Yes, but yeah, so that's what. Like, I feel like I bother them so much that they know they know my email at least. Like I do not care, I will constantly. And then they, I guess they pass along my email to somebody and they put me on a list which I didn't ask for. But that's what I mean, like, tag the heck out of them, email the heck out of them. They will put you somewhere, they'll put you in the back of their mind and then they'll prioritize you because they see that you read the book.
Jordan:You tag them, you care, you like it yeah, oh well, hope you like it. Maybe you don't, but you know what someone else was telling me. Someone was telling me that if there's a book you really like and like let's say the publisher posts about it, like, follow the publishers at like marketing accounts and comment on their post, because they'll sometimes go through comments and be like, oh, like, we saw you like, are really excited about this book, can we send you a copy now? I don't know if it would be necessarily an art, but it could be like a finished copy. So someone was telling me that's also like a lot of work and I have yet to do that, but if you want to like, kind of like, slide into their comments.
Lissa:Yeah, well, to be honest, from recently I've gotten some follows from marketing accounts. Like I guess this one account works for Berkeley I don't know if it's Berkeley romance or just Berkeley but she followed me and I'm telling you she only had like 300 followers and she's a marketing. She was works for the marketing and she would post advice like hey, when you email us, like make sure you put the address. And that's when I was like I always I already do that. But like wow, yeah, you really should put the address. But and then I have one of the girls from Bramble who is the one who DMed me for the Enigma arc. She follows me on Instagram and I follow her back.
Jordan:So smart, wait, I want to get. Oh my God, imagine I'm like so jealous, Like I love Emily Henry. So if I could get like an arc of like one of her books which are so hard. Oh yeah, yeah, like I'm not even impossible. Yeah, I, you're telling me, you are telling me and I was on the Berkeley influencer program.
Lissa:So that's when I was supposed to get the happy place. Oh no, yeah, never got it, I know, but I didn't take the time to like ask them reach out.
Jordan:But totally understandable. Like sometimes I feel awkward because so I like joined like a couple. This would be more for like the indie space, like joining those like PR companies, which is another way you can get like possible more so finished copies. I wouldn't say like arcs or anything, um, but I, so you can apply for these like PR companies and like you fill out the forms and you're not guaranteed anything but like sometimes they'll like send you stuff. If an author is like looking to send PR packages and they don't know like who to reach out to, they'll go through these like PR companies. So that's like another way that you could get like finished copies of like indie authors.
Jordan:But I don't know if you do that, but like I had one where I was like part of like their influencer like program and they emailed me and they were like or they emailed everybody that they were sending a book to and they were like we want you to post about it when you get it, and I was like that's been.
Jordan:That was like the first time I ever saw like you you need to post about it, like you have to post about it, which is fine, like I plan on posting about it anyways. But I felt so uncomfortable because then I had to screenshot my you know how like they'll send you like a tracking number. So I screenshot that it's still stuck in pre-shipment and I'm like hey, like I just want to let you know like the reason I'm not posting about it is because I never got it. Like it's still stuck in pre-shipment and this was like three weeks ago. So just just letting you know. But it's like kind of like awkward that I have to like get back to them and be like, hey, I didn't get it, but I felt like I had to, because they made you feel that way.
Jordan:Yeah.
Lissa:Basically I haven't Okay. So the only one that has ever made me feel like that was I don't know if I should say it, but this specific publishing house. But I think everyone knows, because when you sign up for them, they will tell you so it's, it was like Valentine PR, and if they will send you these net galleys like a bunch of net galleys and if you don't post about it within two weeks, you have. So that's their rule you have to post a review within two weeks or else they won't prioritize you, you won't get books, and it was. And they have a lot of romance, especially dark romance, mafia, everything, everything. It was a really good platform, but it was a little bit stressful to keep up with because of life and full-time job at the time. So I think I missed one posting and I freaked out, and I've never requested anything ever again, so I hope they don't hate me, but it ended up being a lot.
Jordan:Yeah, I am part of valentine pr, but I also, like I was kind of in the same boat, but I was requesting so many like arcs, but like just digital arcs, and I never, like I got to the point that I was like you know what?
Jordan:Like this is just a digital arc, like maybe I'll post about it, maybe I won't, but like you'll get my reviews, like I will send those to you, but I'm not going to like prioritize like posting this on social media because, like I would see people like posting like oh my god, thank you so much for the arc, and then it's like a picture of their kindle which is like cool, like if I have time to do that, like I will.
Jordan:But I did, I do, but I do like not that I apply for that much through them, because I just again life be lifing, I'm like I don't want to stress to like read, but like I've also just gotten nervous because I feel like I've heard from these like PR companies, from other people that use them, that are like you have to send your reviews, like this day, and if you don't, like you're like shunned. So it's just kind of one of those things that I just I get like scared. So I like oh, I make sure I only apply like for one arc at a time yes, that's why arcs are can be stressful.
Lissa:Yeah, they are, and you can say no.
Jordan:You know like you can say no, I'm at the position where sometimes I have to publisher were to reach out to me and be like hey, like, we want to send you this like, would you like, like it? I feel like I can't say no, because then I feel like if I say no, you'll never come back to me.
Lissa:I know I've said no once before I did. I felt really bad and I can't remember who it was. Yeah, I know it was an awful experience, but I was really nice about it.
Jordan:Okay, see, and I think, think that, but I think just like, even for myself. I'm like well, what if you never reach out to me again?
Lissa:which might barely barely happen, because I feel like that's such a possibility right.
Jordan:So I'm almost like I'd rather like, but then I just like stress myself out and I'm like I gotta, I gotta read it.
Lissa:No, but like with arcs, now that I'm getting them, what I've realized is I think I how you said that if you get, if you send me, a finished copy, there's less pressure. So, especially when you're going to request a review copy, make sure you you know if you want an advanced review copy, it's going to come early, like that's when you got to post about it, that's when they're like really entrusting you. It's their whole marketing budget that they're wasting. They're not wasting but they're gifting to you and so to me that's always a gift. I'm going to prioritize that. That's why you said, if you send me 10 books and you know four of them are ARCs and they're not released yet, I will prioritize that because I know how blessed of a position I'm in, whereas if you send me a finished copy, thank you Still appreciate it, love it, we'll read it one day, but it won't be up top at all, I agree, I agree, like I've definitely put down books, I was like reading because an arc came in, especially an arc that I really wanted.
Jordan:So like those ones I like get so excited. Oh my gosh, and I still am. I'm like so grateful for you sending me that arc of Truly Madly Deeply. I remember I slid into your DMs and I was like Lisa, can I have it?
Lissa:And it's funny, can I have it? Can I have it? And it's funny because I read it, I read it, I just didn't, it wasn't.
Jordan:I love that book, but then it made me.
Lissa:It gave it three stars too. I really liked it. There was not anything that I'm like. I didn't like this at all. I just for some reason it didn't click. I don't. I can't tell you what it was about, Jordan, that's how much I think it was something about a restaurant, right, you know the restaurant like a chef oh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're close, that's what I knew.
Jordan:But and but then it made me so happy too, because like I got an arc of the second book, so like I could like close off. Wow, I can't talk, I could close. Oh my, I I got all. I got the first and second, and so I'm like hope, I'm like fingers crossed I can get the third, like but. But that's the thing is, I think I was reading two other books. I like basically threw those out the window to read the arc of the second book because I like out the window to read the arc of the second book because I like I got it.
Lissa:Like you know, yeah, but that's what happens, especially in a series if you are not reviewing the series, they won't prioritize. You like you know how many times um, like, for example, the Megan Brandy, the new series, uh, or the, say you swear, promise me not. And then now it's um, keep or something, always yeah, I don't know. So I got that one because I previously reviewed both of them. So that's the thing if you want something, if you love an author and you want to keep getting their advanced copies, you gotta post them.
Lissa:Like authors that I mean that have a backlist, like like Anna Huang, you want any of her books, you got to keep posting. Like they'll ask you for a review for, like her latest King of Envy, or the first one, the Striker, which you know I'm very blessed to always get her advanced reader copies. This year I didn't really ask for it because she has so many, but like authors like that, you got to keep. So not only are you getting these arcs, like you did all the work, you finally got the book, you got to post about it. That's what people forget. Oh, I got it. No post about it and go above and beyond and read it.
Jordan:Yeah, no, you didn't really. And like, honestly, like, and if you love it, like, shout it out, like, scream it from the rooftops that you love it. Sometimes I like no, I'm kind of bad, like I know too. I really want to get in a better habit of, if I like, do a post, like a picture post, I will tag, like the author, the publisher. But sometimes if it's a reel, I don't think to tag the publisher. But I really want to get in the habit of doing that because it is still content for them, like I'm showing them everything.
Jordan:I know I love them and everything I blow them up like poor Lizzie Blake. I mean this girl. No, because like I feel, like okay, even stalkers coming out again, follow me, but she comments every time I post but see, like remember, you saw her in person and you talked about how, like she knew who you were because you were posting about her. Yeah, I know, I went to her.
Lissa:I went to her publishing event in Huntington Beach, olivia Blake, and it was for one for my enemy and I, like we signed and everything. And then the next day I tagged her in my post and she d'd me, commented she was so mad I didn't tell her my handle. She goes. You should have told me who you were. I would have, like, kissed you and I was like I missed a kiss from Melody. It's fine, but do you know what I mean? Like I and remind you, if I could go back, I still wouldn't tell her my handle because I would just be so I would start sweating profusely in places that, like you, shouldn't you know?
Jordan:No, I totally get that. I was at the Romantasy like book con in February of like this year and I like waited in a line like for over an hour to meet Nisha J Tooley and then sadly she wasn't feeling good so she had to like go back to the room take a breather, which I was like, not the next person in line, but the person behind her.
Jordan:So I was like they were like she's coming back later, just come back then.
Jordan:You betcha, I waited in that hour-long line again to like meet her because I just like wanted to meet her so badly. But I kind of like not saying that she knew who I was. But she was like you look familiar, like do I like to have we met before, and I was like, no, this is like the first time, but like I do talk about your books a lot on Instagram. And she was like, oh, okay, so it's like I think authors really do, especially if they have like their Instagram accounts and they like use them. I think like not saying that an author has a sway with a publisher, but I do think an author, like if a publisher is like hey, like we have these people reach out, like it doesn't hurt to be like talking about the author's books, because like they might see this list and be like, oh my God, this person, like I see them tag me in a bunch of things, like I love their content, so it definitely doesn't hurt to do that both, like I'll, tag the author and the publisher.
Lissa:I really I will. That's how Penelope Douglas oh the only way they notice me, because other than that, like pride month, I always create a pride month which I need to create but yes, it's a good and you know they love that the only time it's the only time I've gotten an acknowledgement, I think like way back then, when you know they weren't as big as they are now, but still it means a lot, like I think the authors know it means a lot.
Lissa:It means a lot to them that we're shouting them out and it also means a lot to us when a publisher recognizes us or the author. It's a mutual benefit transaction and I feel, like some people along the way, no offense, when you get maybe a little bit too big of an account and you get all of these books, I don't see the posting anymore, I don't see the appreciation for these authors and that's why I always try to remind people like it's a blessing, like they are spending their budget on you, they're sending it for you. Post the book At least. It's the least you can do If you're not going to read it, or maybe if you read it and you didn't like it. I don't know if people can write a neutral review. You didn't like it. I don't know if people can write a neutral review.
Jordan:I'm very good at just writing a basic, I don't know. Yeah, no, I think you are really good about that because, like there's been some captions I read of yours that I'm like, oh, ok, so I'm like I think she liked it, and then you're like, no girl, no, I did not. And I was like think she liked it, and then you're like, no girl, no, I did not. And I was like, oh, I had no idea, but no, but like. Sometimes I think that's like a good thing, because, especially if it's something that, like somebody sends you like and maybe it doesn't seem like so genuine, but like when you get an arc or a finished copy, sometimes it's like you kind of like have to make those things, like you're not lying, maybe you're not like the reason I write like a neutral review, like my main point of it as well, is because I don't want to dissuade people from reading it.
Lissa:my experience could be so different from anybody else's, and again I'm doing it one to thank the publisher and the author too, because I did feel neutral about it. It didn't change my life. I didn't, really didn't. Doesn't bother me. I'm not going to sit here and write a negative review and waste my time. What I will give my time to is building that relationship, thanking them, them seeing my efforts, and someone might love that book. I don't want to ruin their day by writing a negative review, so I'm just going to write a review. What it's about, what it did, maybe one thing that I actually learned from it, and that's that, and then I just go about my day, but that it's worked for me. So this is my advice, because it's actually worked for me.
Jordan:Would you like, let's say you didn't get like? This is my advice because it's actually worked for me. Would you like, let's say you didn't get like? This is not talking like getting a copy, like either an arc or a physical copy. Would you write a negative review for a book you didn't like, or do you tend to like, leave those off your page and you, or do you tend to make those like if you didn't like it? Those are like the neutral reviews.
Lissa:A neutral review would be maybe something I gave like a three star to and I only waste not waste my time. But actually, yeah, because I find it a waste of time to to write a negative review personally, just because I don't see the point Like why I it's not going to, I don't think it's going to benefit my followers by me writing a negative review. I mean, I don't know, to each their own. I know some people do, you to do, you guys, but I just like to keep my page very positive, very all the books I like, and so that's why if it's like a three star and a publisher sent it to me, then I will waste my time and put it on my page. Other than that, I never, never review books I don't like. I don't put them on my page, I just don't Fair.
Jordan:Will you still do like? I don't know if you do like Goodreads reviews, for like every book, you read.
Lissa:Yes, I'll read everything, but do you put like the negative review in?
Jordan:there I'll rate everything, but do you put like the negative review in there?
Lissa:I have for things I feel passionate about, like, okay, no offense, another favorite author? Okay, but your favorite author, there's going to be a book you don't like Penelope Douglas, credence Renekint. It's her latest. It was the villain, something with a villain Kill the villain or something like that, and it was her second. Man loves man. Her first one, god of Fury. You know that's my top tier, top tier, god of Fury. I preach by that. This one was not good. Oh my God, when I tell you the verbiage that was used did not make any sense and I won't repeat it because it's weird and cringy, and that's what I put exactly in my review. It also was very dark, like borderline, like consensual, and so it was a lot of things I didn't really enjoy, and so I definitely put that in my review. But would I spend the time to put that on my Instagram? No, because, one, I don't want to advertise the book and two, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
Jordan:I definitely I can kind of see where you're coming from. Like I don't necessarily. I think my like also, like my Bookstagram page has kind of like left the review. I like want to get back into it, so I kind of have. But like I'm not, like I've definitely not been reviewing like every single book I read, but I've definitely done some negative reviews for books that I had a lot of hype, like I had a lot of expectations for, that just didn't hit. But overall I'm not reviewing books. I realized that I did not like but that I read if that makes sense.
Lissa:Yes, I think what I do. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think I'll talk about it briefly. On my stories, like, for example, cleopatra and Frankenstein, I was very shocked that people did not warn about the cheating trope and I made a whole thing about that, remember. Yes, I do.
Jordan:I do remember Because it's a trigger. No, it is, and that is the reason why I bought the book because, like you know me and I like that's like one of my favorite, like tropes things in books or whatever. So I was like, oh my gosh, like I didn't know that was in this, like heavy it's like multiple point of views and it's just like the crappiest crap people.
Lissa:But um, people like that. I just would have preferred maybe knowing so that's that's what I would wait actually dedicate my time for.
Jordan:Like, please, like, I'll save someone's life no, no, and I think that was good and you put it on your story. But like that, that and like the thing is, is like it might have helped people not read it. Or, like me, it helped someone, like go and buy it. Granted, I still have yet to read it, but like, I know I want to and I like. But I also am obsessed with the cover. I love the cover so much so I was like gorgeous, right.
Jordan:So I'm like I, so I bought it because of that. So this is why sometimes it's like, even though like negative reviews, like you should never tag the author in them, but like sometimes they are helpful because you're writing something that might either interest somebody else, or you're like helping somebody, in this case, because there's a lot of people that are like no, absolutely not. No, cheating, I can't do it. And totally fair, totally fair. So like you help somebody that like could have very much bought the book, and then like listen to your stories, watch your stories, and we're like, oh, I can't. No, like I can't, I can't do this.
Lissa:And it's funny because it's a great author. Great writing. Had I known that trope was in there, I wouldn't have read it. Did I finish it because I was already involved in? The writing was great, yeah, did I read it? Four out of five stars? I did because it was good, but I can't bring myself to write a review about it. Oh, the review would not be nice. The review would probably dissuade people from reading the book, even though it was good. Great writing, no complaints, like, for example, I just read the uh, the favorites, I think, and I another one.
Lissa:I took to my stories. Oh shit, Because of the cheating trope and everyone's like there's cheating in that one too. Yes, it's awful, and then I would have rated it five stars. I'm not even kidding. Did I think this plot point was necessary? Absolutely not. That's my personal opinion. To other people they probably like the cheating trope and some people are like it's such a huge spoiler. Listen, as my friend told me, who wants to be spoiled with cheating?
Jordan:it's already a spoiler but like the thing is, you know, but like I plan on reading it and knowing that like I, I like I don't, they don't care, yeah, but you're still going into it and you don't know who's going to cheat, so I don't think it's a spoiler and that's why we'll keep shouting it.
Jordan:Exactly and that's another thing that like again, if people like don't like that trope, I heard about the favorites that it's very, it's like very similar to Daisy Jones and the Six and that's like one of my like favorite favorite books.
Lissa:Yeah, and there was cheating in that too. And I'm well, I'm always oh I don't think so like they.
Jordan:You know they wanted to, but they never did. You know they wanted to. And then the ending.
Lissa:And then okay, okay okay, yeah, yeah, gotcha, wait. Did we just spoil it? No, that's why I didn't say anything. I think I was going to say something and then like, oh no, that's probably. See, this would actually be a spoiler. That's why I'm not saying anything. They're like what is?
Jordan:it. What's going on? What's going on, okay. So like I wanted to ask too, like, when you started your bookstagram, what did you start like? Like reading?
Lissa:So I actually started reading in 2020. So in 2020, because of COVID, it was wow, yeah, I finally have time to read. Because before that, I was doing the nightlife, I was going out. I just wasn't prioritizing reading. I mean, I was doing the nightlife, I was going out, I just wasn't prioritizing reading. I mean I was 23.
Lissa:So when COVID happened, you know, I was 23, going to 24, and I was like, yeah, I can finally read and I've always loved reading, and so I guess that year I tackled 25 books, which doesn't sound like a lot, but for me it was a lot. And so I started following this one account and this is how I I eventually created my own, cause I was like, oh my God, there's a whole community of book readers. Cause I would see people in the comments and this is COVID. I didn't have anyone to talk to. My mom and my sister were over me, over me, telling them uh, book plots, they're just like uh, and they just were over. I'm like this is boring. So I was started commenting on this influencers with people and I was talking to them, and then we're like should we create our own book accounts? And I had no idea the world of bookstagram was here.
Lissa:But so that first year I read like 25 books and it was like, based off this influencer, and it was all these popular books. So I met, I read normal people, born a crime, a little life, uh, people we meet on vacation. So I started with the very, very popular I don't want to say basic, but just the very well-known popular books and through that I eventually in 2021. So at the end of 2023, I finally read from blood and ash. I met this girl in the comments and we created we were thinking about creating an account and so she goes have you ever read this book? You should read it, it's romance. And so we both went into it thinking it's romance. No clue, there was going to be vampires. That was my first introduction to fantasy romance and after that series there was only two books out. It was from blood and ash and kingdom of ash.
Jordan:No, that's, that's sarah j maas uh, whatever book from blood and ash something.
Lissa:Yeah, kingdom something, yes, and it was so freaking good, so good. I was like feening, I'm like I need this, I need this, so I googled and then I came across just everything that everyone has read already, you know, throwing a glass, like, oh, I went on a deep dive of everything and then I went to like Holly Black, the fairy, or the all that Prince, yes, cruel, prince, there you go. So I just binge, and that was my introduction. And then I finally started, in 2021 of April, creating my account, and I started my first post with Six of Crows and immediately it like took off because obviously it was such a popular book, but I didn't know, and so through that, I was just able to just start reading. Just start reading books.
Jordan:So crazy. But I think it's so cool too that you read, like you basically like whatever you want to read and I think it's really cool that you'll like be like okay, here's like a literary fiction, here's a romance, here's romantic, oh, and then here's poetry. Like I think it's very cool, like you like such a diverse reading taste, that you post about on your like page too, because, like I notice, like a lot of people will tend to stick to one thing, whether it's like fantasy, romance, literary fiction, but I but that's only because, like, mostly I read romance, but like I do want to die, like dive into other things. But sometimes I feel like I can't, like I'm stuck in this, like I can only post about like romance.
Lissa:But I think it's very cool that you literally post whatever you read yeah, and I think what I remember was from the beginning stages of book Instagram, when we first started because we basically started it like or not started during the hype of it. Do you remember that it was so fun, so fun, so fun, and I think I was a year late to the game, but it was still prime, prime.
Jordan:I feel like that first year that because, like, I joined it in June of 2021, so like shortly after you, but I feel like that first year was so fun, like everything was blowing up, everybody was commenting, everybody just like wanted to shop books, and it was just so awesome but what from, like, my core memory of that time and which is what spurred me to wanting to be a multi genre content creator at the time?
Lissa:because that's we, that's what we do, we like create content, we review. It's like what we do. And so what I really wanted my page to focus on is normalizing, because at first I was posting no, I was posting. I started posting everything, but it was like fantasy. And then I really went hard on the literary fiction. It was, just, at the time, everything that I needed.
Lissa:I was like this is where my headspace is at, and then I would read a romance here and there, and then I don't know if you remember, but at that time, romance was almost looked down upon. It was the intellectual snobby. Snobs were out, which is okay, we love y'all. Y'all have big brain energies. But I also wanted to be that person that I'm like. No, I can have a big brain energy and then want to do something that's going to bring me happiness and peace.
Lissa:And you know, we live in a world at the time that was really crappy, Like we couldn't move, we couldn't go out. I needed that breath of fresh air that came in romance, dark romance, fantasy, you know sci-fi, I needed that and you can include like thrillers in these. I'm just not a huge fan, but anything that brings escapism, because when you're back in the literary fiction it's the reason it's called literary fiction is it tackles a lot of real and very intellectual topics that can sometimes just take a lot out of you because it is intellectual and the writing is intellectual and you have to understand the words. And yeah, it was a lot. So I wanted that blend and I wanted to normalize romance because I at the time I was following a lot of um girls who want, who posted the hot girl. You know reading books which were hot girl literary fiction. Do you remember that? That's what they called it at the time? I still remember because it was just like just everywhere and then what were?
Lissa:those books Out of curiosity. Yeah, they were like Zadie Smith, joan Didion, eve Babbitt, a lot of classics. So not what I was reading. No, like memoirs, nonfiction, like things that are, I guess, just a little bit topics I hate to say this, but topics that are taken a little bit more seriously. Like a romance author is never going to win the Pulitzer prize, yeah, because they're just not going to. That's what I'm saying.
Lissa:That giant thing fits in that tiny thing Got some nominations, but do you know what I mean? That's, that's the only reason I'm separating the genres. I hate that I even have to do this. But, like, at the time it was worse and I came in hot. I was constantly on my stories, I was advocating for romance. It was a huge thing at the time and finally it took off, I think in like the end of 2022, it became books to grant or what's it called, like book TikToks, and you would see romance to see. Romance was everywhere. Like we finally started. Like Bloom Books just got created, like not too long ago and I do.
Jordan:I really am grateful for BookTok for normalizing and bringing like romance, like authors and readers together, because I agree like authors and readers together, because I agree Like I think, especially like Bookstagram, when we joined, I think romance was getting bigger, but I think only within our community, like I think we found a group of people that liked romance and we just talked about it but it still wasn't really like that like outside of it. So I love that like my bookstores are having like multiple rows of shelves for just romance and I like that there's more romance stories out there and I like that bloom exists and taking all these indie authors and bringing them to like a traditionally published space and I think that's like very cool. So I I do have to give credit to like book talk and like yeah, I think more so book talk because like that just like blew up, but I think that's like very cool.
Jordan:So I I do have to give credit to like book talk and like yeah, I think more so book talk because like that just like blew up but I think bookstagram. But I have noticed, like I think and I don't know if you agree, but I think book talk is very good about like go. If you want to like be really big and grow like that's what book talk is. But if you want that sense of community and like having like a group of people that you can chat with, that's like what Bookstagram is, which I think is very much that Like. I do find it difficult to grow on like Instagram at times, but I think I have this like core group of people that I can chat with about books and like life and anything.
Lissa:I think right now well, I think both. I think TikTok and Instagram, but they mainly are rewarding the new like brand new yeah, if you're just come on, they're.
Lissa:They'll like hype you up and stuff, which is okay, I get it. They want, like, more people to come. But it becomes interesting, like you know what I mean. Like do you ever see, you know accounts that you love and the minute they like grow or something, they switch up. I'm just like wait, like I came and followed you for this and now you're doing that, and then I'm just sad.
Jordan:I like I have not noticed that, but I feel like I like see people come in and they're new and then they're like oh my gosh, I joined six months ago, Like thank you so much for 20,000 followers, and I was like what?
Lissa:I know I've been here for like four years.
Jordan:What are you talking about?
Lissa:That's so true, but I have seen like do you like TikTok more than Instagram?
Jordan:these days I kind of am, just because I have like the chaos of TikTok. Like my TikTok like makes no sense. Granted, I'm not trying to grow TikTok, but like I post the most random shit and they don't get like that many views. But I think it's like fun again. Like I think I got so stressed with Instagram and like needing it to be curated. Like I think I got so stressed with Instagram and like needing it to be curated. And I'm not very good with like the aesthetic, like book photos, like I want to be and I try to be, but then I just like don't love them, so usually I'm in it, and then I was like kind of getting sick of that and I hated that. I was like not having fun with it anymore. So, like TikTok brought the fun back. So I'm having more fun and, granted, I'm not necessarily posting just book things, I post random things, which is definitely not going to help me grow in any way. But at least it's fun again Because remember when we first started Bookstagram and it was fun.
Lissa:You're posting, but it's also getting so much engagement and people are chatting with you and commenting and it's fun and that's kind of like I know, I know and especially I think what's gone down too is a lot of the accounts that I loved at that time that we were in no longer exist.
Lissa:They're gone, like there's so many people yeah, I think you reach a certain amount of followers and I think the pressure at least that's what I noticed the pressure to continue to post, but those were like we all grew together, we all like just had fun and commented and it was so silly, our pictures weren't even that cute. It was like I remember I used to post the most basic stuff, like a book on a bed. That was it.
Jordan:And then like maybe like my leg was in it and but then we get like 500 likes and I was like, yeah, and now it's like I'm lucky if I hit like three digits.
Lissa:I know I'm just not into editing. I just I'm not good at it. I don't know how to edit and you know, with our limited time, I'd rather be reading than spending my time. And I I see people who tell me how long it takes them to edit on Canva and I go oh my God, like those seven hours I could have finished a book. So I I think, like what will always stay with me is I'm just going to like I think, like what will always stay with me is I'm just going to like I always try to remind myself why did I create my account? Like what was the goal for my account? And like the main goal was to get free books. Like I will say it, I made this account because I did not want to spend money on books. And now, this year, I have not bought a single book, not a single book. Jordan, not a single book. I cannot say the same.
Jordan:But but I agree with you in the sense of like. That, honestly, was why I joined to like I wanted free books, like I didn't care. I wanted like a community because, like we were very sectioned off, like we were like stuck inside quarantine and like none of my friends were really reading. So I wanted a sense of like community because I was reading so much and so I feel like I got that plus free. I wanted free books Like let's be real, yeah that was my top.
Lissa:Two. I wanted free books. I was very honest about it. And two, I wanted a space where I could talk to somebody so I wouldn't feel alone, like cause, you know, when you read a really good book, you want to tell someone. You don't want to keep it to yourself, you want to shout and scream and be like no, I'm crying because like, holy crap, this book. And I found that here and I was able to grow my account and to the point where I would get free books and like.
Lissa:So my goal was never to be to come here for the likes or the followers. That's just our endorphins, that's just what, you know, social media feeds to us. So I always constantly have to remind myself I'm not here for the followers, I'm not here for the likes. I came here for the community and I have that. And I came here to build my account in order to get free books and I did that.
Lissa:So I don't want to be swept up in. You know, this account's growing more than me or this. Is that because I already have these connections and I made it like. I did that and sure followers played into it and sure you know a lot of other factors played into it, but the goals that I set out I made, and so I have to remind myself that when one post doesn't do well or this doesn't do, that you know. I feel like that's what people should remind themselves, because I hate to see accounts disappear when the pressure gets to them. Like that's how you say you want to fall in love and TikTok is now making you re-fall in love.
Jordan:Yes, I love that for you. Thank you, I do too, because it was just like Instagram was just getting so stressful. So it's like that and that's the same thing for anybody. Like everybody that's listening, hopefully you do create a bookstagram or a book talk and you do that. But also like, do it because you like love doing it, don't do it for like the followers and hopefully you get followers and things like that.
Lissa:But like, don't make that what you do it for because, yeah, and I get it Like sometimes, you know, we put effort, we read the book, we take the pictures, we write the caption. I totally get it. We put so much effort into these posts for no one, you know. Quote, unquote for one person to see or two people, that's all that you need. You just need one person to read it and connect and that will go such a long way. So make the accounts start from scratch. Get 10 likes, it doesn't matter.
Jordan:That's one line, that's one person, that is true, that is you know that is true, okay, so before we end this episode, I really want to ask you. I want what is your all time favorite book that you would want to recommend to anybody and everybody, and then also it could be whatever book, but then I want to make one spicy. So what is then a spicy book that you would recommend to anyone and everyone?
Lissa:Okay, Favorite all time book, which is the pressure, the pressure, but it's just always. It's always locked in my soul. Okay, the Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller. It's a retelling about Achilles and Patroclus, but the actual retelling, the proper one, LGBTQ, tragic Greek retellings are always tragic.
Jordan:Their story is Achilles' story. Yes, yes and it's just epic, epic. I need to read it still I haven't, but I just, I never was a fan of like the war, the like but the war is like at the very end.
Lissa:so the war is about, I want to say, 30% of the book. 70%% is them, their youth, them growing up, the tenderness, the beauty. It's just the way she writes the quotes. It's so beautiful. They fall in love in their adolescence and their teens and he goes to war in his teens.
Jordan:Oh, okay, because I'm not going to lie. I love Cersei that is one of my favorite, but I also love Greek mythology, so I would love her. Like, that is one of my like favorite, but I also love Greek mythology, so like I would love like her. What are you doing, jordan? No, but I literally thought the whole book was like the Trojan War and I, like never was a big fan of the Trojan War. I was never a big fan of like the Iliad, no hun, not at all.
Lissa:No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's like the bare minimum. And even the warm moments are so beautiful because it's they're together and, like Patroclus does not fight, the fighter is Achilles, so they're going to stick to each other and so it's just. I don't even want to tell you too much because, like I could cry, but anyway, so that's all time, all time, okay. Okay. Spicy, all time, okay. This is crazy because there's so many, but okay, I'll have to go with this one because I constantly reread it it's misconduct by Penelope Douglas.
Jordan:I want to read that so badly.
Lissa:So it's like can we look it down? Listeners, how many times this girl is saying I'm going to read that all the books I love, and she's like, don't worry, I'm going to read it and we quote on her. We're quoting her. I know I really need to One for my enemy.
Lissa:No, you need to do a month where Lisa's picks oh my God, I really do so you're going to all-time favorites and they're gonna be your favorites, because that's just what friends recommend friends to do. True, so true, and we have very similar tastes. No cheating in any of these. But listen actually the song of the keyries. See how excited she got. I'm concerned. I love a cheating trope, okay, no. But Misconduct Girl, misconduct by Penelope Douglas. It's set in Chicago, no wait, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. New Orleans, new.
Jordan:Orleans Ooh, okay, new.
Lissa:Orleans Dark academia. He's running for politics. She's his son's teacher Forbidden. She's. She's his son's teacher, forbidden. She's 26, he's 30, no 25, he's 31, minor age, that's nothing. He has a son. He has a son. He's in high school, so his first year, so he's in ninth grade. They have an estranged relationship, and so there's the plot point with the father son. There's a plot point of forbidden. There's also, he's in politics. There's they meet at a mardi gras masks. That's the first thing. Because you know, penelope douglas is known for their first chapter. Insanity, yeah, insanity, yeah. Tennis, uh, just rich. I mean, I'm obsessed, I'm obsessed. Minor stalker, the, he, the amount of times he, oh. There's this one scene where he just goes shut up, easton, I'm trying to finish these emails anyways, like yeah, see, this is what I'm saying this man.
Jordan:You need to read it, it's perfection, okay I will now I have, and to the listeners you also need to read it pd is just like where it's at, like their books are just so good. But I, I like, also agree with you. Credence was like not my favorite, but like devil's night night, great series, great series. Um, okay well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, lisa like. Thank you, thank you, thank you thanks for having me.
Lissa:This is fun.
Jordan:This is how our conversations normally go, anyways I know they're like this was so chaotic, but in the best way possible, so I think it works, thank you.